Planning your life, and your finances, post divorce

Tamsin Caine discusses planning for life after divorce with fellow divorce financial planners Ceri Griffiths and Lottie Kent. They talk about what happens after the orders are issued, planning for the life you want, starting to think about retirement and living your best life.

Lottie Kent, founder and owner of True Financial Design Ltd
As an Award Winning Chartered Financial Planner and Resolution Accredited Divorce Specialist, Lottie is on a mission to see a world where no woman feels worried about their finances when faced with divorce. Her company, True Financial Design Ltd, helps remove financial uncertainty by imparting their expert knowledge in a simple way so their clients have the confidence to make informed decisions about their future. This ensures they don't make a financial mistake they live to regret. True’s clients are women either facing divorce or already divorced who feel scared about their finances for the future and are desperate to feel in control. True’s unique Visualise your Future process gives people back their spirit and freedom by lifting that dark cloud of uncertainty that finances often cause.

I look forward to hearing from you and if you have any questions, please let us know and we will be happy to answer them.
Mobile: 07824 554288

Ceri Griffiths is Founder of Willow Brook Lifestyle Financial Planning, She has been a financial adviser for over 20 years and is both Chartered and Fellow. She gives advice exclusively to women divorcing wealthy and powerful men and her mission is to remove financial vulnerability and disadvantage for these women, but she also stands for much more than this. Her business plan and objectives run along the UN Sustainable development goals, specifically Gender Equality and Quality Education, in recognition of this on International Women’s Day Mo2vate Magazine recognised her as an inspirational woman for 2021, and she is currently a finalist in the nation of women awards, Empowerment category for change makers.

Ceri Griffiths FPFS CeMap Bsc Hons
Chartered Financial Planner
Willow Brook Lifestyle Financial Planning 

Tamsin Caine is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.

You can contact Tamsin at or arrange a free initial meeting using She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK

Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd

P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it by scanning the QR code…
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(The transcript has been created by an AI, apologies for any mistakes)

Tamsin Caine 0:07
Hello, and welcome to the Smart Divorce podcast. In series 5, my guests will be helping you to come out of your divorce distribution or big break up and create a different you move forward with the things that you want to be able to achieve and think about things differently. I really hope you enjoy this series. I'm your host, Tamsin Caine, and we'll be meeting some fabulous guests. I hope you enjoy them. If you do have any suggestions as to other guests that we could have on then we'd be more than delighted to hear from you. I hope you enjoy!

Tamsin Caine 0:46
Hi, and welcome to another episode. I'm so happy today to be joined by my very good friends and fellow divorce financial planners, lovely Cerie Griffith, and Lottie Kent. How you doing ladies?

Ceri Griffiths 1:05
Amazing, thank you.

Lottie Kent 1:09
Fantastic as always little bit toasty, but good.

Tamsin Caine 1:13
Awesome. That's fab. So we're gonna start by asking you to introduce yourselves so that our lovely audience know who who is talking to them today. So Carrie, tell us a bit about you.

Ceri Griffiths 1:26
So I'm Ceri, my company is Willow Brook Lifestyle Financial Planning and I give financial advice exclusively to women divorcing CEOs. So I have a real specialism and that's linked to my passion, which is all about removing financial vulnerability and disadvantage for those women. And that's kind of what I'm all about.

Tamsin Caine 1:49
Amazing. And Lottie?

Lottie Kent 1:51
So hello, my name is Lottie Kent. I'm a chartered financial planner and a resolution accredited divorce specialist. And we help at every stage of the divorce process pre, during and thereafter. And our vision and our mission really is to see a world where no woman feels worried about their finances when faced with divorce.

Tamsin Caine 2:19
Fantastic. And I kind of feel like I need to introduce myself, just in case anybody isn't aware of what I do. So I'm Tamsin Caine. I'm a resolution accredited financial planner and Chartered Financial Planner as well. I don't just work with women, I work with men as well, and sometimes work with couples two. And so but I do tend to work with the less financially educated of the couple, so the person who's not looked after the money normally tends to be my client. And that leads to me have been dealt with people who've come out of abusive relationships and so on as well, which I never thought I would do, but seems to be seems to be the way my work has gone. Our plan is to try and help people to achieve a divorce financial settlement without having to go to court, although it's not always possible. And so today, ladies, we're gonna be talking about what happens after divorce as far as the money is concerned. So I'm so glad that we're ending series five, that smart divorce podcast in this way, because then kids, it's going to be a brilliant way to finish it. So we're gonna be talking about where we come in and what we do. So Carrie, do you want to start off by by talking through what happens when so that the client has a plan or the couple have applied for their financial consent order their pension chair in order their lump sum orders, what happens when they receive those orders, and they either define load or they Decree Absolute depending on when they applied for their divorce. So what happens then?

Ceri Griffiths 4:08
in terms of what I do with them, is that what you mean Tamsin? I thought you meant legally then I can tell you why. So when I work with clients, we have kind of distinct periods and actions in those periods. So during the period where we're leading up to those things being created, I have a process to end with a section or evolve. And during involve the work that I'm doing is very much around filling in and making sure clients are ready to make investment decisions. So my clients may not and typically haven't been really managing their relationship and haven't made long term financial choices and decisions on so we spend quite a bit of time talking about why investing make sense, what risk is all about how charges work on investments, an education piece around that. So what that means is by the time that the orders are in place, and we're ready to move ahead, my client is in a really informed and educated place, we will have created a financial plan as part of the work we've done. So there'll be a cash flow forecast. And we will already know what we need the money to do, how we need it to perform, and she will understand what my choices are, so that she's ready to make those decisions. So what we will be doing at the point that you will just come through is talking about recommendations that I will be making further specific products that are going to make your plan come to life. And that might be that I might be talking to her at some time and account, it might be that we might be talking about an annuity, we might be talking about investments that are going to give an income. And we will be talking about those products. And I will be talking through how they would work for my client, why be recommending them so that she can make that decision? So that would be the very first thing you do. And then I suppose the next question you can ask in a minute, Tamsin is what I do afterwards. But that will be orders there, give them the actual financial advice, so that they can then go ahead and get those those products in place.

Tamsin Caine 6:22
Thank you. And Lottie, it is, I assume that kind of your process is fairly similar. How do you so I want to kind of rewind a little bit in how do you get your clients to think about what their post divorce life looks like? Because actually, that's kind of something that that's quite difficult, I think, for clients to stop thinking about, because in their head, they're all still wrapped up in the divorce, and they're still wrapped up in the kind of emotion of it and, and also the kind of job of actually getting divorced.

Lottie Kent 7:02
That's a really good question. And I think something that, as you rightly say, a lot of clients really, really struggle with and, and we actually send to clients a an objectives for your future for and which basically really helps, it asks the right questions, I suppose, or triggers them to then really kind of drill down on what they actually want for their future. And what I would say is we're very much as much as you know, it's very tragic. And it's been a horrendous and a very challenging time, what clients have been through, it's really kind of empowering ladies and men to on the other side of that and saying, you know, this is, it's the start of your new life, it's, it's not the end of it, obviously, the divorce is an end of a period of your life. But this really is a phase, the next phase of your life and the start of the new phase. So the sort of questions that we're asking are sort of retirement, what age they're thinking of retiring, what whether their income will change, whether they go back to work, or whether they stay as a house person, potentially, or whether their income might potentially increase and options for. If, for example, I'm not saying I'm a careers advisor here, but sometimes we end up doing all sorts of, or covering all sorts of things do what we do. But it might be the case that they might say, well, I, you know, I really fancy just doing something to, you know, earn a little bit of money, they might want to be a yoga teacher, or just I mean, it's all these things and actually really thinking about what sort of holidays they would like, and a lot of clients that find that really, really hard. And, and what they want things to look like, from do they want to potentially, you know, move to a different house, all these these sort of questions. And I think when clients with regard to they want to travel in retirement, just asking all of these questions, and just having a conversation and thinking, what do they want things to look like in the future. But one thing that I do say to clients, if they're really, really struggling, is think about what the standard of living or what they've done as a family. And really think actually, well, this is what we have done. And this is what it costs us. And this is what you know what I want to maintain. So they might go to, you know, on holiday to Caribbean year, every year or go skiing every year. And if that person wants to maintain that standard of living, then it's important that's taken into consideration. And I suppose the thing is, from our side of things, I'm sure we are all the same here. It's very much a case of really finding out the personal objectives. And then it's down to us to do the legwork to do the planning and the structure to ensure that that client can then achieve their long term objectives what both now And then in the future as well, really?

Tamsin Caine 10:02
Yeah, no totally. Do you? Do you have clients who, in the kind of initial periods straight from divorce, have kind of one idea of what they might like life to look like. But as time progresses, and you work with them kind of moving forwards actually there, because of their kind of mind is a bit freer from the divorce actually, after a couple of years, for example, they start thinking more than mine start opening their ideas start getting bigger D, do you experience things like that with clients?

Ceri Griffiths 10:40
Yeah, I 100% see that. I think you've been times in during the process of divorce, that involvement happens, you see clients who, there's definitely a tipping point where it moves from kind of the stress and the panic of what's happening in real time. And there's a point at which they can start to really see the life that they want to live with, and coaching and with the right questions and kind of pick to that. And then I definitely see my clients, when they step into that life, see things evolve and do things differently, which is the importance of then of our annual planning and our regular reviews, because what we might set out is what they were going to do, and where they were going to live and what their roles were going to look like, in work can really change. So yeah, I've had quite a few clients with that. And so like I had one this morning, actually, who the planning that you were talking about there Lottie, we very much do, don't we like at the front end of things. And then we work out how much the settlement and the figures should look like so that they in that discussion with their lawyers, they have that sense, Jack. And my client this morning has now got her settlement to exactly the position, you're talking about Tamsin? And all the way through, I'm having the house and having the house and having a house today. Today, she's got the money in her account. And she's like, I don't know if I want the house. It's okay. Okay, let's let's explore that now then. Okay. So the house was a security thing for her physically getting money, he couldn't spend the money. And now she has stuck. I don't know if all appear and so we're now we're just exploring that. And what if she moves? And there are things that financially she hasn't thought through, for example, stamp duty moving costs, how house that she would move to? And financially? Does it make sense to actually do it, we're just kind of doing that kind of benefit, versus the cost of it analysis? And yeah, I think you see that happen. Our clients, you know, their lives evolve, and they continue to do exciting and amazing things. And we are just with them, they're adapting plans and talking about how the money works so that they don't have that fear of running out.

Tamsin Caine 12:49
Yeah, absolutely. If you had similar experiences last year with your clients

Lottie Kent 12:54
100%, I think one of the most reward, excuse me, sir, just kick something. And one of the most rewarding things about what we do, or I find anyway, is seeing the transformation of this very often, it's shell like human being, who is so scared and worried about the future. And then you can act as their friend, their guide, that partner, whatever you want to call it, and you see this transformation into this new human being. And often you can actually physically see it, you know, it's often some of these cases have obviously gone for a very long period of time. And, and then that continues as you start working with them on an ongoing basis and providing that ongoing support. And I think it's just really and reiterating what Ceri said there about kind of ongoing service and providing, you know, to was our job doesn't stop once, you know, the investments are structured, and all that sort of thing, like people's plans change, and they might want to go and you know, live in India and do or Nepal and do meditation for the rest of their life or whatever, you know, it's, and I just think we are the facilitators, and we allow clients to do that. But it's so important that if clients are able to say, right, well, this is what I want, this is what I want to achieve. And we are then able to kind of implement that for them and keep keep on track with them. And the other thing I would say, though, is I think often when clients haven't necessarily dealt with the finances themselves, and especially it with clients that we potentially are all kind of specialists in and looking at the slightly more vulnerable or less financial savvy party. And it's really important that if that client isn't working and they're almost accumulating the settlement, that actually that's even more important for ongoing service and support because if a client then say for example, they had their ongoing needs worth 50,000 pounds a year or whatever the case may be. And actually, then they're actually spending AC, then those that are plan and and what they're doing is very different. And that's why it's so, so important to keep on track with, you know, ongoing reviews and things like that to make sure that that client is never going to kind of have that fear of running out of money basically.

Ceri Griffiths 15:26
Can I just point as well, I think it's the opposite is really important that our clients are empowered to spend, because the fear of running out of money can really limit how much clients feel comfortable with. And the aim isn't to end this life with all this money accumulated in the bank for the vast majority of clients. And I think a lot of what we do is give people the freedom to live really great lives without that fear, so that they can actually go out there and have, you know, have have the life that they have often missed throughout their marriage, which, you know, for many of my clients is the case and they start to probably live.

Tamsin Caine 16:07
Yeah, no, I totally agree with both of you there. I think that it's it's living the life you really want to leave, not being fit for enough money, but then also having somebody monitor it so that you're aware that you're not madly overspending as well. It's like we're the accountability partner in some respects. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Is this life that I'd really love to live is, is that actually really doable. And you know, you talked before, Ceri, about the, about the technical work that we do in terms of products, and so on, but actually a large part of what we do is providing the visual aid so that they can see, this is what your future life might look like. This is how your money ebbs and flows in your pot. And this is how if you carry on living the life that you're living now, in the way that you want to live it this is this is how that will look. And you know, if there are surpluses, absolutely encouraging them to spend it, I had a client, they're not actually divorce clients in this morning, who was talking to it, they were like, well, we were made making more income this year than we plan to, like you already had surplus. And they were like, oh, yeah, yeah, what should we do with it, we're quite enjoying going away for weekends. It's like go away from all weekends then.

Lottie Kent 17:31
Somebody once said to me, and I say this to clients very, very often, well, a couple of things. First of all, you want to, I say to clients, you want to I wish I had a crystal ball, because by the time you passed away, we want this to be zero. And unfortunately, we can that we don't have a crystal ball. But the other thing is, is what you don't want is to be flying Ryanair yourself and you're sending your children BA first class. So you really need to it's it's, yeah, it's that fine balance, as is the case with a lot of things in life. But it's really, you know, and I think going back to what Ceri was saying that, that giving people that confidence to actually the vision, we all do the kind of visualise the planning via kind of visual means. And I think that cash flow modelling and I think it just means that clients have the confidence whether they need to rein in this thing, or whether they need to spend more, that it really gives them a realistic picture, and helps them and gives them that confidence really and removes that fear.

Ceri Griffiths 18:36
I think what it also does, which is really powerful, is it gives them the freedom to to give to their children, and see them enjoy it now rather than wait for how much more noble is that if your children are gonna go first class, go with them, and actually enjoy being with them rather than them when you're gone. And it gives, I think, the way that our planning works, the way that we all use the visualise software to actually help our clients see how their cash flow is going to ebb and flow. It means that we can see points at which they can share money, it means that we can plan and think about some of the tacky things like the inheritance tax, and how we're going to mitigate that and the steps that we're going to take to do that. So that's quite a big part of what I do post divorce exactly sit with my clients to say, Okay, well, what do you want to give to your children and when do you want to do it posts or do you want to actually enjoy them having it

Tamsin Caine 19:32
Yeah, yeah, talking about legacy is is really important part of what of what we all do, isn't it? You know, it's it's all of that what do you want all of your post divorce life to look like not just not just that first couple of years and I think that it can be quite difficult. I don't know if if you guys have found this as well, but to to get people to think much further than a couple of years in hence So especially when they've been through such a dramatic life change, to kind of go, we need, like start, can you start thinking about what what life might look like, even further than sort of two years in advance even further, when then when the school kids leave school or, and you know, what's in your head, when you think about what retirement looks like, what if you picture yourself in retirement? What does that look like? And, and how can we make that happen for you so that it looks like that, and so that you can achieve it as soon as possible, is that that is something that you've experienced his clients,

Ceri Griffiths 20:37
like, you know, you just give me a really good idea of something that we could each day. Like if we really useful, I think for clients who see case studies of what other people have done post divorce, like, what their lives look like, what did their retirements look like? I think clients would probably like that anonymously. But you know, kind of it can be hard sometimes to picture retirement, because you can't think of what what your time if you don't like and I know so many different ways that your time could look that might be really useful. But yeah, and it is tricky, isn't it a lot is tricky to kind of picture that post, post life. And I think one of the key things that I do with clients is it's very much his coaching skills and coaching techniques to get clients to actually be in a place looking backwards. So that's probably when it age 65. And what will you have achieved? And what will you have experienced? And what regrets might you have? What if you haven't done something at that point might not actually feel like?

Tamsin Caine 21:38
Yeah, though, that's a really good point. Have you got any examples of firm clients who've done that? And oh, things that we might add that our listeners might not have thought of? Lottie?

Lottie Kent 21:51
So it gets a good question I have, well, no, I am. But no, not necessarily a lot, a lot of my clients actually sometimes will end up getting and, and start doing a new job, for example, purely because they want that element of purpose, and something quite rewarding. So an example is kind of becoming a yoga teacher or, and one the other thing that I was going to mention, based on the retirement side of this is this, this applies to divorce clients, and also non divorce clients as well. But I think there is an element of retirement isn't just about money, it's about mindset, as well. And I think a lot of people struggle with that transition from and having that sense of purpose and role when you're in your working life. And then all of a sudden, you get to x age, say 60 for example, and you stop working and everything changes, and I think a lot of work does need to be done. And I see it a lot with clients and almost coaching to clients about you know, saying well, with the financial side of it's absolutely fine. But you know, mentally Are you prepared for retirement as well and and I think that takes a lot of a lot of work from from that side of things. But in answer your question, I haven't had any crazy stories with clients too, with regards to you know, them actually going to Nepal and living in Nepal and you know, meditating or whatever to be fair be quite good for from a financial planning point of view because in Nepal is very very cheap so but yeah, the money would last longer. So but yeah, though I haven't had

Ceri Griffiths 23:41
these stories, these to be honest, I can see as all their sounds great.

Tamsin Caine 23:49
I think right about about the purpose thing Lottie about clients sort of needing to find a job or a career or some sort of work that gives them a sense of purpose and a sense of meaning and, and often my clients seem to want to help others. So I've got a couple that are moving that are kind of you know, they've had really awful experiences with they're not necessarily with the actual divorce but the kind of life before divorce and they want to help others not to experience the kind of same things who perhaps want to move into a some sort of coaching or psychotherapy even I've got a couple of clients who are kind of moving into that. That kind of area it does. It does seem to be that divorce sort of moves your mindset to want to help people in who kind of overcome adversity and in a way so I think you're absolutely right on that definitely. Definitely experienced a number of clients who are looking at that.

Lottie Kent 24:52
It's surprising actually how many clients story divorce coaches have, I often think people that work in the divorce world have some relation to divorce themselves. So for example, I'm the daughter of divorced parents and so kind of seeing the consequences of it and things like that and which was what makes me so passionate about what I do, but the amount of divorce coaches that I speak to and they say what I went through my own divorce, and I really wanted to then help others is so yeah, absolutely hit the nail on the head there because I think it's, yeah, it just just like we always say, as part of the the divorce team, it's unique, lots of different areas of expertise. And a coach is a very, very one that's very often required and and can continue to do so and have a very prominent place to post divorce as well, because it's really that kind of changing their mindset transitioning into a new life. And it's not just you know, write divorces over papers or through orders done, right. That's it. And it's it's not the way it works at all, is it and it's really a case of transitioning into that new life phase.

Tamsin Caine 26:05
Yeah, everyone doesn't suddenly disappear of your divorce team just because you've got your Decree Absolute, or you find a lot of don't, we don't all leave you to crack on yourself and, and all disappear into the midst. Ceri, you are going to give us an example of a client

Ceri Griffiths 26:20
wasn't it wasn't quite, it's mine. And it's not mega exciting. I wanted to just say because sometimes we think when you think about retirement, it has to be mega exciting, you know that you are going to do something will changing. And that's sometimes why clients struggle to picture retirement. So my own personal example is, when I had my little boy, I took a year off maternity leave. And my mum gave up work and retired and she had him afterwards. And I want to do that. That's my own personal retirement plan is that I want to be in a place that when or should my son have children and his should his partner want me to? I would like to stop and say, Yeah, I'm having. I'm having the grandchildren. So yeah, that's I think it's sometimes it's just a really simple things that that make your life, make your retirement something that you really look forward to.

Tamsin Caine 27:10
Absolutely how old is your son

Ceri Griffiths 27:14
10. So don't worry,

Tamsin Caine 27:15
okay, we've got a few years of yet then I'm just checking. I'm joking, I'm joking. Their immediate plans for retirement? I think, yeah, my, I've not got a huge number of clients who've done who in retirement have kind of had great plans to change the world. But, but I know that, you know, a couple of clients have wanted to go and live abroad. And actually in one case, and they wanted to go client wanted to go back to Ireland, which was where her dad's family were from, and she gave it a go for a few months. And just to kind of test the water before she kind of went all in, you know, it was like, Oh, well I'll just are gone rent for you know, six months see if it's where I want to be safe it I like the lifestyle out there tech kind of test it keep my house over here. I think she rented it out. So you know, it was bringing in the income to pay for the, for the property in Ireland. And she did you know, she has gone and moved over there. Similarly, because of that experience, I kind of pass that on to another client who wanted to move to Italy. And we talked to them about you know, maybe maybe take some time over there maybe go and you know, have a few months over there and see what you think they went over did a similar test toe in the water situation. And when absolutely no way I definitely don't want to go there. Like when I really lived in the pub quiz. And I can't have that in, it's in. It's really important to me and actually, I'm quite happy just going for holidays. Like, okay, so I do think like it is an evolving piece like you've both talked about, you know, it's not a it's not something where you you go, this is what I'm gonna do after my divorce. This is what I'm gonna do in retirement. It's constantly evolving. It's constantly growing and the plans that that we put together for our clients can flex with it. That's the whole that's the massive benefit of them. We know that when we put them together on day one. That is not what your life's gonna look like.

Ceri Griffiths 29:27
That's what we want to guarantee isn't it? I can guarantee you this isn't exactly how it's gonna play out. Because there will be things but it's our best guess and then we evolve them.

Tamsin Caine 29:37
Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, there are things that will happen that we can't possibly you know, what, when are you going to inherit? Today is that lack of crystal ball again, isn't it love to it could do or do with that crystal ball

Lottie Kent 29:52
100% And I think nothing is set in stone and we as you both said we have that kind of flat And to be able to help the clients. But just coming back to retirement, I think often it's a very simple thing as well, that people that aren't financial at all, but somebody might want to just spend more time in the garden and or, you know, and often if somebody says they want to spend more time in the garden, well actually have they got a garden that they're going to be happy with in retirement, and then it all comes back to the financial planning, but it's just, yeah, I think it's often the very, very simple things. And like Ceri said, you know, spending more time with grandchildren like that is, you know, and having the flexibility to do that it doesn't all have to be the kind of big, big grand plans. And but I suppose it's with a sense check for clients to see whether it's possible on if it is possible, how to go about it.

Tamsin Caine 30:45
So yeah, no, that's where I think that the important thing to, to remember from all of this, I think, is that the money is the tool that enables you to do the other stuff. So it's not about we're not, we're not making the plans for you, they're your plans, we just need to tease them out of you. But we can help you make sure that the money is in the right place for you to spend on plants in your garden, or a new house with the garden that south facing or whatever is best for your plants. You know, it's those sorts of things. And it's thinking about what, what's really important. And then okay, how can we help you to make sure the money is available at the right time when you need it? I think the simplest things that one of my clients said was to know, I just want to be able to go out for a coffee with friends, when I'm retired, whenever I want, I don't want it to be a biggie. I don't want it to be something that's like, I'm gonna have to make massive changes. No, but in order to do and, you know, that sounds relatively straightforward, but that's about making sure that the money is there and available, that those little treats even if they're not, you know, globe trotting or first class to Australia.

Ceri Griffiths 31:57
I think one of the other really key things that we do that I think is really important to mention here alongside the coaching, the financial planning, getting that side of things, right, is we are also always that technical person to call on when there is financial advice, Neasden, but particularly in current markets, ensuring person to actually say, Okay, this is what's going on, this is what we're expecting. This is how markets work. And just be that person to reassure them when things aren't looking as rosy so that they still don't have the fear around their money, that they can turn the news on, read the papers and actually go, Yeah, I know they fall in and it doesn't concern me.

Tamsin Caine 32:42
Yeah, absolutely. Very good point. And we are very sadly, coming to the end of our time together. We must do this again. Lottie, anything to add to what we've what we've said today, before we wrap up,

Lottie Kent 33:00
Putting me on the spot there. And I, I, I'm hoping I'm going to come up with some grandad grant thing to say in the next three seconds, but I'm not. But all I will say is, whatever you do post divorce, just make sure that you're thinking about you as number one and what you want for the rest of your life. And if you are struggling, reach out for help. And there are many, many people, whether it be coaching to help you establish what you want, or whether you're struggling from a financial point of view and need to find where to put that pension credit or whether it be you know, structuring the settlement to provide you with an income, whatever the case may be reach out for the areas that you feel like you're lacking in. And by doing that, it will be empowering in itself, because actually, by seeing that there is an area that you don't maybe have the full knowledge of, it's it that's that's the biggest step and noticing that and reaching out for help is the best thing that you can do.

Tamsin Caine 34:05
So you said you weren't gonna say anything amazingly brilliant, that was amazingly brilliant. Ceri,anything to add? Well, before we wrap up,

Ceri Griffiths 34:18
just lot's of luck to the people going through this and coming out the other side. And we're all here reach out and we'd be more than happy to support.

Tamsin Caine 34:26
Yeah, absolutely. That's a brilliant note to finish on. Ceri, Lottie and myselfs details will be in the show notes. If you do want to reach out to any of us. If you do need any help, either during your divorce with planning your finances or post for us, please do get in touch with one of us. We would be delighted to help you. It just remains for me to say thank you to Carrie AncelottiCeri and Lottie for joining me today as always, it's been fantastic speak to you both.

Ceri and Lottie 34:57
Thank you, Tamsin! Thank you so much for having us!

Tamsin Caine 35:06
I hope you enjoyed the episode of the Smart Divorce podcast. If you would like to get in touch please have a look in the show notes for our details or go onto the website Also if you are listening on Apple podcasts or on Spotify and you wouldn't mind leaving us a lovely five star review. That would be fantastic. I know that lots of our listeners are finding this is incredibly helpful in their journey through separation divorce and dissolving a civil partnership. Also, if you would like some further support, we do have Facebook group now. It's called 'Separation divorce and dissolution UK.' Please do go on to Facebook, search up the group and we'd be delighted to have you join us. The one thing I would say is do please answer their membership questions. Okay, have a great day and take care!

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