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Helen Stuart
Helen has always advocated for good mental health, and vocalised the importance of ease of access to mental health support throughout her career. This has seen her working across community, outreach, counselling and domestic abuse prevention roles. Now Helen brings her wealth of knowledge, managerial experience through TLC: Talk, Listen, Change, and personal connections to mental health to drive Now You’re Talking’s success.
Helen is passionate about leading a socially responsible, business for good, enabling contributions to made back to TLC making the charity’s mission possible.
Tamsin Caine
Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.
You can contact Tamsin at tamsin@smartdivorce.co.uk or arrange a free initial meeting using https://bit.ly/SmDiv15min. She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK
Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd
P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it by scanning the QR code…
Transcript
(The transcript has been created by an AI, apologies for any mistakes)
Tamsin Caine:
Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Smart Divorce Podcast, and if you're on YouTube, you'll see that I feel like I'm being eaten alive by a triffid next to me because I am in a Manchester office today, so I do look like Crosstown, and between them in a sauna and a greenhouse. But I am very pleased to be joined today by the lovely Helen Stuart, who's come to talk to me today about therapy and her practice, which is called Now You're Talking. Welcome, Helen, it's lovely to see you. Thank you so much.
Helen Stuart:
Thank you and
Tamsin Caine:
It's brilliant to have you join us today. Do you want to tell us a bit about how you started in therapy and how Now You're Talking came about?
Helen Stuart:
Yeah, of course, my name's Helen Stuart. I am the Managing Director of Now You're Talking, so we provide therapy for individuals, couples, children and young people. So we're here to make therapy safer, more accessible, more simple and effectively more human, and what I mean by that is that when I wanted to access therapy when I was younger, I found it very confusing, wasn't sure where it was that I needed to go. There are lots of places and people that say that they're a counsellors who you know, you can trust and you can book on our platform, and it's all done safely and securely on that platform. We also partner with businesses to help reduce absenteeism, to tackle people that have been off work for a long time and give us some support around getting back into the workplace. And, lastly, but absolutely not least, we are a profit with purpose organization, which means 66% of our profits that we make are fed back into our parent charity, which is TLC, Talk, Listen Change, which is based in Manchester.
Tamsin Caine:
Wow, amazing, amazing, so much that you've got going on and we're going to do a series of these podcasts talking about different aspects of the therapy that you're doing, about the different people that you're you work with, and it's all relating to co-parenting and to parents when their children are going through divorce. So we're going to start off today, and today's focus is very much going to be about children. So lots of parents panic when they separate and they think that it's going to have a massive impact on the children. Is that something that you see?
Helen Stuart:
yeah. So it really varies, and I think from a personal perspective on this. So my parents separated when I was nine years old, so I feel very passionate about this in terms of that support that we're able to give children and young people. Obviously, when you are going through a breakup and you go through a separation, there is so much emotion going on for the parents and it's very, very complex and I think that trying to then adding the layer of navigating kind of the children through that is a lot and I think that so my previous work so I've did a lot of work around children, young people, who were experiencing mental health issues and these had stemmed from lots of different problems. But what we did see is that when there had been a relationship breakdown, whether that had resulted in a divorce or separation, if that hadn't been managed in a way where the child felt safe to kind of talk about how they were feeling, we did see that manifest into other issues.
Helen Stuart:
And now children are quite, you know, they can mask sort of how they're feeling quite well sometimes and it might come out in different ways.
Helen Stuart:
So you know, can mask um sort of how they're feeling quite well sometimes and it might come out in different ways. So you know it might be like oh, they're absolutely fine, I don't feel like it has affected them. Actually, you know their behavior in school's not great. They've fallen out with loads of friends at school. You know it can kind of manifest in different ways. So I think it's you know, and I think this is this, is it's really hard and I think what my first and foremost thing is actually going through a breakup, going through a divorce, is really really difficult and it's about making sure that we are, um, keep in touch with kind of what's going on with the children as well and not forget that they're involved in all of this, which I absolutely know that people don't do. But I think when there's lots of other stuff going on, you can quickly get that, can kind of get swept into it all as well.
Tamsin Caine:
No, I think you're absolutely right there, and my parents divorced when I was 12, so similar thing, and I'm a lot older than you. It was it was in a time when therapy was something that happened in America and it just wasn't like no normal people in the UK just didn't go and get therapy. But I think it's a useful tool and and I think and could have, could have massively helped. Well, if, if we're talking to parents who who are going through divorce or going through a relationship breakdown, what should they be looking for in terms of signs from their children that they're not coping as well as we perhaps think? So you mentioned behavior in school. Are there other things that might give, might give that away, that they perhaps need some extra help?
Helen Stuart:
yeah, I think becoming very withdrawn I think think there's kind of like the more obvious ones is obviously becoming more withdrawn, and I think with children there is a lot of internal blame that goes on when parents divorce and I know myself that that is something that I massively internalised and, you know, even at nine years old I was like, well, this must be something that I've done and I think if that's not verbalized and vocalized, that can quickly spiral um. So I think it's from the offset is being really quite open and that can make, as a parent, can make you feel really vulnerable at an already really vulnerable time because you're having to say, you know, let's be open about this, let's talk about it and, as hard as that might feel, actually like it will hopefully help in the long run that you kind of had those conversations early on. I think, again, where we are in society, you have social media and, depending on kind of the age of the of your children, um, I don't think there is a perfect age to go through a divorce in terms of children. I think you know it happens at any age and everyone will be affected differently.
Helen Stuart:
I think kind of having an eye on, on what maybe might be playing out on social media and things like that, because unfortunately with social media, there is a whole host of information online and if they feel like maybe can't get the answers from you or they can't get that information from you, they might turn to other sources.
Helen Stuart:
So it's kind of keeping an eye on all of those aspects which is really hard. And I think I keep kind of honing on this point that when you are going through this, absolutely there is so much going on. But if we can try and have really open and honest conversations right from the beginning and kind of create a safe space where children can feel that they can talk about kind of how they're feeling about it, and that emotion or how they're feeling might feel so uncomfortable for you, they might feel angry about it, they might be really sad about it, and I think that when you're going through something, it's really easy to kind of internalize that, take that blow, all those kind of things. But I think as much as you can kind of stay in a place where you're like I'm just hearing and I'm just listening how they're feeling, rather than having to say I know, this is all my fault, um, which is where therapy can really help try and navigate some of those feelings.
Tamsin Caine:
Yeah absolutely, and so if you've spotted some of those things, some of the the behaviors that that you've suggested might be recognizable, so they've become very withdrawn, misbehaving at school, trying to get your attention, all those sorts of things that are possible, how might you introduce the possibility of them talking to somebody like you? How can they talk to their children? And is it age specific? Would you have a a different way of speaking to? I mean, presumably you would younger children as opposed to young people .
Helen Stuart:
There's lots of different um modalities in terms of different therapies that you can have for different ages. You know um for a child as young as five. You know, for example, you're not going to have the same intervention for a child at the age of 12. You, I think it's about introducing the idea that they can talk to somebody who's, because I think that we often heavily rely on our support network in that circle of support, which is great and we absolutely should do. But sometimes we need I don't really like to call it like a professional, I mean, they are professionals but somebody that can kind of help navigate some of those emotions and flip it, maybe help you see it from a different point of view, but doesn't come from any particular side. It's a neutral, isn't it? It's a neutral third party. That Absolutely. And I think that, even as a parent, if you think you can kind of, you know, you absolutely know your child best and you can talk to them, but sometimes they just need someone. That's not going to come from any sort of position. So, bringing that up in conversation, I'm quite hopeful in terms of the direction we're going as a society, that counselling and therapy is becoming more normalised and I would say definitely sort of around the pandemic, and the young people that have gone through the pandemic are probably more open to it than anybody else. But I think it's about again doing that process together, not just saying to your child you're going to see this person and this is how, this is how it's going to be, you know, talking, having a conversation and saying what do you think about speaking to somebody? Um, one of the things that we do is that we have pictures of all of our counselors and our therapists on our site, because there is something about seeing an image of somebody and thinking, okay, well, that's the person I'm going to speak to. And then what we also do is we arrange and we have like a 15 minute free call so you can have a conversation to see.
Helen Stuart:
Because I'm a massive believer in you know I wouldn't choose who you should work with or who your friends should be, because you know yourself best. So it's about trying to choose someone who you know you're going to get the best from, and and when you look at kind of the research, is that actually that therapeutic journey is so important, naturally, if you have a really strong relationship with your therapist, your counselor, and actually you are more likely to engage, you are more likely to be able to embark on that journey and really take that seriously and and make some changes. If that's what you want to do, um, so definitely would do that process together.
Helen Stuart:
Children often feel like they're having things done to them all the time, um, and you know, when you're in the midst of going through something as complex as divorce, this could be another extra layer of well, you're just telling me to do this. So I think involving them in the process if they're old enough to be able to go through that process with you and you know, almost kind of empowering them that they can be the expert in this and you're following their lead and you're just kind of trying to lead them and guide them. It is a hard space to be in, but I would say that that is where we see the. The most positive change is when children have felt like they've been part of that decision
Tamsin Caine:
yeah, okay, I like that.
Tamsin Caine:
I know, imagine there's a kind of hard line. But how does the therapy change, for it's a child as opposed to a t..? I mean, let's start with with younger children, so like primary school age, I guess, and even that is quite a broad range, isn't it? But so primary school age, perhaps younger primary school, what? What could they expect? What? Just how does therapy work for them?
Helen Stuart:
So a lot of the time it's through art therapy and play therapy. So it's about trying to work with, you know, a young child to express their emotions in a way that feels quite safe. We can't expect really young children to be able to articulate how exactly they're feeling. So doing this through drawings, doing this through play we had a young girl a couple of years ago from the charity work that we did and she would always draw suns. She loved drawing suns but she always would put, um, a sad face in them and that was kind of her way of trying to explain and express that she was feeling really sad, although kind of things that I think. I think how she was trying to say is like things felt sometimes it felt good, but she still felt sad.
Helen Stuart:
Now, a child's not going to be able to articulate that in words, but being able to use that, you know, through drawing and even through play as well. You know, even I've got a four-year-old and you know when he's sad and I'm trying to say to him you know, what are you feeling sad about? Sometimes they're just so worked up and they can't tell you and it's frustrating in the parents. You're like I just want to know what's wrong. But yeah, I think it's about understanding that they'll have a different way of communicating that and that's where a counsellor or therapist can bring that really unique skill set to be able to work with that child and help them kind of work through some of those complex emotions.
Tamsin Caine:
That's amazing. It's brilliant to know that there is something available even for little children, who can't necessarily sit and tell you what's wrong. And then for older children, perhaps secondary school age what does it start to look like for them?
Helen Stuart:
so that is more um, really again led by the child, but that would be more sort of um take form and kind of talking therapy, so having a conversation, um, but really just trying to help the m unhit, kind of how they're feeling, and you know a lot. You know we talk all the time about teenagers and how angry they are, and you know a lot. You know we talk all the time about teenagers and how angry they are and you know they're going, but actually that's just them trying to express emotion in a way that feels safe to them. You know a lot of young boys. The only emotion that feels kind of valid for a boy is anger.
Helen Stuart:
So that's why they'll act out in anger, because that feels like the most accepted way to behave. So it's about trying to work that through. So it's not. It doesn't feel overly onerous in terms of tell me how you feel and what you know. I think that when you see um you know counseling and therapy and films and you know tv programs it feels very direct lie on the couch, tell me how you're feeling.
Helen Stuart:
And even when I went to study I did my degree even I think I had this like all on the pre pre-concept of what it would be like and it just actually just isn't like that. Um, but it's very much about being client-led and you know, working with that young person and I think as well is that it takes time. This isn't like you go for two sessions and your child all of a sudden knows exactly how to talk and has got loads of coping mechanisms all of a sudden. It's not how it works. It is a commitment that you have to work through, but you do see some massive differences with the children that we work with.
Tamsin Caine:
I guess that's a good point. So what outcomes are you hoping for or expecting as a result of of your children having? Because the outcomes a parent might be expecting might be different to what you think is realistic. It's not a magic wand, but what outcomes would you expect that child or person to have?
Helen Stuart:
yeah, it's really variable, I think, because obviously it depends. You know, if the child has come with um, a very specific traumatic situation, it might be kind of talking through that. You know, if a child is dealing with a separation or divorce with their parents, it might be that they have really strong emotions, that they feel like they blame one parent over the other and actually the outcome of that therapy would be to try and unpick and understand where that was coming from, um, and try and move them to a place where they could not, they might still feel like that and we can't change how somebody feels about something but move them to a place where they could not, they might still feel like that and we can't change how somebody feels about something, but move them to a place where they can talk through it. Talk through it where they're not getting really angry about it or they're not sort of, you know, acting out and things like that. But again, that is a process.
Helen Stuart:
I think everybody's again parents' expectations of what therapy will do is exactly what you've just said that it's a magic wand, it's going to fix everything, but ultimately it is a process that people have to go through and it's someone that can help you navigate you through some of the most difficult times. Or, on the flip side, you know, for me me, for example therapy is more like a maintenance thing for me, so I just go once a month and it's just a chance to check in see how I am. So there's a really broad way that people can use it. I think, the more we kind of shift our perspective that actually it's not necessarily for crisis point all the time. So you actually this is an ongoing thing that's going to support me and all my children or whoever. I think that's the shift that we need to try and make.
Tamsin Caine:
Yeah, it's a big shift, isn't it, from from where we are now to I need therapy. Well, why are you still having therapy? But because I want to carry on feeling. Okay, yeah, and I think that's a big shift, isn't it is there? Are there any children or is there any circumstance in which therapy would not be appropriate?
Helen Stuart:
um, I think if you've got children who might be, you know, have underlying um additional needs or they might be going through um, you know um diagnosis, that you know.
Helen Stuart:
We know there are well, I think probably I'm not sure the figure of like thousands of children that are waiting lists, you know, to be diagnosed for um, you know um, neurodiverse um issues and things like that, and so it might not be appropriate if they're on a certain pathway and you're waiting for certain support.
Helen Stuart:
However, we know that those pathways often are two years of waiting and if you're desperate for support, I would always say reach out, have a conversation. You know, I think that we are great at saying when we don't think this is going to be helpful. We're not about trying to take money off people if we don't think this is going to be the right support for you. We're genuinely about people first and I think that trying to find someone who will be really honest and say I'm not sure this is the right time for you to embark on this, and it's what we pride ourselves on. Um, but you know, equally, there are times where you know that could really complement that child if they're on a waiting list and they need some support. So I would say it's it's really individual and sort of case by case um, and if people are ever unsure, just have a conversation um, because we'll always try and help, and if we can't help, we will try and see if there is anyone else that could help.
Tamsin Caine:
Perfect that's brilliant. And the big question because this is always the question when anybody's thinking about involving other professionals divorce and separation is massively expensive. There are lots and lots of professionals who specialize in doing brilliant work in divorce and and you could quite easily have all of them if you had enough money. So and I guess a lot of people when they're going through divorce, their focus is on the children and and divorce and want to ensure that they come out of it in as good a way as possible and to be resilient and to be able to cope and not to have any trauma impacted by the divorce affecting their future lives. So I think it probably is something lots of people want to prioritise, but don't maybe ask the questions, don't think about child therapy and for how long the child is likely to need. Quite comprehensive therapy would be, would just be useful so we start.
Helen Stuart:
So we've got our children and young people's uh, therapists and they start start around the 40 pounds an hour mark. So you know, we, we it can't be free, but also we don't want to charge astronomical prices for it and we do various different options. So you know, we would always say that a block of six sessions is probably going really close to star. But if you book six sessions with us, there are like various different things we do. So you know, if you block book six, you can get one free because we take one off for you, things like that, and we do run various like different discounts and stuff as well. So I think I would say is that, absolutely understand that. It's it and also it's not the divorce. You know, going through a divorce is one thing. We also know that there's a cost of living crisis at the moment, like nothing. It's really hard for lots of people. So, again, kind of reach out to us, have a conversation, and if it's not something we can help you with, we can point you in the direction of somebody else. What I would say is that what's hard at the moment is that a lot of the sort of third sector organisations that do provide free of charge counselling is that they that really stretched and that the waiting list for those services are really high. Um, but you know, we will absolutely try and see if there's anything we can do.
Helen Stuart:
I think for me it's like at the heart of what I do. So I have spent my entire career working with um children, young people, adults that have, you know, facing a whole different host of circumstances, and I have fought all my career to try and get them the support that they need, you know. Hence why now I'm running an organization that puts the profit back into those services, because my ideal world would be to be that I am able to fund enough services back into the charity to create more accessible services to people. Um, so it's one of those where I get it from absolutely both sides. So you know, if you're looking for someone that would understand and you know, know kind of, where you're coming from, then you know I'm all.
Helen Stuart:
I'm not the type of person that's not kind of. I'm always happy to kind of have a chat with people because I think it's really important and at a time where you're going through so much like actually just having a listening ear of someone that will just be really honest and say you know what you can do this, this and this or you know you can have this. I think that's really important and I'm always, you know, I think at my core is wanting to help people. That's what, that's what wants to do, and and all of our therapists that we have on the platform, we're all doing what we what we do because we want to help more people. Um, and ultimately, you know that that is our why, of why we're doing it
Tamsin Caine:
yeah, and that's incredible.
Tamsin Caine:
I mean, if I think about, you know, that's six sessions that a child could have with a child focused therapist for the same price as one hour of a of a solicitor's time. That that's got to be, that's got to be worth its while. You know the way you talk about it so passionately. It's, it's absolutely amazing, um, fantastic work. I've not spoken to anybody who's been a child therapist yet on the podcast and I've wanted to for quite some time. So massively appreciate you coming in to talk to us today. Can you tell us where people can look you up, how they can get hold of your services? We will put it in the show notes, but but let us know right now where, where they can find you
Helen Stuart:
so you can go to our website, which is www. nowyourtalkingtherapy. co. uk.
Helen Stuart:
we are also on facebook, we are on instagram, so if you prefer to send a message via those channels, please feel free and someone will get back to you. Um, we've also got a um email address on our website, so if you do just want to arrange a chat, you can do. Or if you want to book a free um call with one of our therapists as an introductory call, you just go onto our website, choose who you want to work with and pop that in for either yourself or your child oh, that's amazing.
Tamsin Caine:
Oh, just one quick question that I forgot to ask the children I'm. I have assumed throughout our conversations that they're coming to talk to a therapist one-on-one, so mum or dad might wait in a waiting room, but they're coming in directly with the therapist. Mum and dad aren't listening into what's being said and it stays confidential with the therapist. Have I got that right?
Helen Stuart:
you absolutely have got that right.
Tamsin Caine:
Yes, that is right, yes, yeah, just wanted to check in on that because I think that's really important for any age child that they know that they can, they can be open and honest and that's, yeah, you fed back to their back to their parents that this is all this is between them and the person they're talking to, and they can have confidence and that's a real key element of it.
Helen Stuart:
That is a really safe space. The only time that we would have to ever break that confidentiality which is the same with adult therapy if that they were at harm or they were going to harm somebody else, um, but yeah, it is a really safe and confidential space and it's not a place where they feed back to mum and dad and go oh, by the way, they said this or that.
Tamsin Caine:
So yeah, absolutely right, amazing, that's fantastic. Thank you, Helen, so much, and thank you next, next time, where we're going to talk about therapy for parents who are going through divorce. So thank you so much and I look forward to speaking to you again soon.
Helen Stuart:
Thanks so much.
Tamsin Caine:
Hi, and I hope you enjoyed that episode of the Smart Divorce Podcast. If you would like to get in touch, please have a look in the show notes for our details or go onto the website www. smartdivorce. co. uk. Also, if you are listening on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify and you wouldn't mind leaving us a lovely five-star review, that would be fantastic. I know that lots of our listeners are finding this is incredibly helpful in their journey through separation, divorce and dissolving a civil partnership. Also, if you would like some further support, we do have a facebook group now. It's called separation, divorce and dissolution uk. Please do go on to Facebook, search up the group and we'd be delighted to have you join us. The one thing I would say is do please answer their membership questions. Okay, have a great day and take care.