Life post divorce for domestic abuse survivors

Tamsin speaks to divorce coach, domestic abuse specialist and author Caron Kipping about handling your abuser post divorce

Caron is a survivor of domestic abuse and is a domestic abuse expert, having trained as an Independent Domestic Violence Advocate and worked in the sector for many years.
Caron combines her work with The Dash Charity with supporting clients privately as a Divorce Coach specialising in abusive and controlling relationships. Caron is also author of 'Recognition to Recovery - How to leave your abusive ex behind for good!'




Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.

You can contact Tamsin at or arrange a free initial meeting using She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK

Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd

P.S. I am the co-author of “My Divorce Handbook – It’s What You Do Next That Counts”, written by divorce specialists and lawyers writing about their area of expertise to help walk you through the divorce process. You can buy it by scanning the QR code…

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(The transcript has been created by an AI, apologies for any mistakes)

Tamsin Caine 0:06
Hello, and welcome to the Smart Divorce podcast. In series five, my guests will be helping you to come out of your divorce, dissolution, or big breakup and create a different you move forward with the things that you want to be able to achieve and think about things differently. I really hope you enjoy this series. I'm your host, Tamsin Caine. And we'll be meeting some fabulous guests. I hope you enjoy them. If you do have any suggestions as to for the guests that we could have on, then we'd be more than delighted to hear from you. I hope you enjoy. Hello. And today, I'm really delighted to be joined by Caron Kipping who is a survivor of domestic abuse and is a domestic abuse expert having trained as an independent domestic violence advocate. And having worked in the sector for many years. She combines her work with the dash charity with supporting clients privately as a divorce coach, specialising in abusive and controlling relationships. Caron is also the author of recognition to recovery, how to leave your abusive ex behind for good, which is actually on my desk. And it's not on my desk. Because I was talking to Caron randomly. It's on my desk because it's a fabulous book. And I was writing an article about domestic abuse this morning. And whilst quoting Caron, so Caron, welcome.

Caron Kipping 1:41
Thank you. It's really kind.

Tamsin Caine 1:45
Pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me this. I have a feeling we could probably talk for hours on this subject.

Caron Kipping 1:56
Very probably!

Tamsin Caine 1:58
Probably, I want to start off by by just talking a little bit about my own personal naivety around domestic abuse. Because we were introduced by a fellow financial advisor, about four and a half years ago, I think when I first started doing work in divorce, and they said, You must meet Caron, she's fabulous does a lot of work in this era, and she's a divorce coach. And we talked and I said naively, well, I don't think I'll be working with people who who would be kind of suitable clients for you, fool, fool, full slapped myself ever since have recommended a fair number of clients who've gone on to work with you with it, because I didn't realise I don't think that this issue is as widespread, let's say as it is. So I think to start with might be a good idea to kind of put a definition around domestic abuse, because what we're not talking about is just physical violence are we?

Caron Kipping 3:09
No, you are not. And, you know, if you look at the statistics that come out of the research around domestic abuse, the stats show that one in four women experience abuse in a relationship, one in six men experienced abuse in their relationship. But they all only the people that we know about, there's a lot of people that are going through this that we actually don't know about because they don't come forward. And also because they don't actually recognise it as being abusive. So, for example, lots of my clients will come to me, I'm naively like you, when I reached out into divorce coaching, I thought, Is there really a need for it? You know, are there going to be people coming forward that are in abusive relationships? And I didn't think many people would come forward, but yeah, like you have been inundated ever since. But some of those clients that do come forward don't recognise it as abusive in the, you know, until I pointed out that actually what they are experiencing is emotional abuse. It is coercive and controlling behaviour. So it's that manipulation is that being made to feel that you're not working? It is being belittled and criticised on a daily basis, that is abusive. And there's a real power imbalance in their relationship, so they don't feel able to speak up for themselves. They don't feel able to challenge, they feel bullied within the relationship. There's a lot of controlling behaviour usually related to finances or around the children. And so yes, it may not be physical. For some people, that physical abuse comes much later on in the relationship, or it doesn't happen at all, but what they experience is, you know, years and years, sometimes of emotional abuse, you know, being isolated from friends and from family, and from any kind of support network being made to feel like they are completely dependent on their spouse. And that has a huge impact on you. And if you get to a point where you feel really uncomfortable with it, and just think, actually, I'm really miserable and really unhappy, I don't want this anymore. And I think we should separate that's quite often the time when the situation becomes worse, when they feel frightened of the future, when the bullying can become worse, you know, they get dragged into court proceedings. You know, it's costing them a lot of money financially. So there's, you know, there's so many things to consider. And, yeah, that's where I spend a lot of my time is unpicking some of that stuff. Helping clients see the reality of their situation. And but take a bit of control over it as well

Tamsin Caine 6:46
Yeah, absolutely. I think I mean, so much from what you've just said that, that I want to talk about today. And it is a little bit where to start. But I know that that often it it isn't an obvious and immediate thing that that you that you're in a relationship, and there's there's obvious signs of abuse from day one it it can take time to I don't want to snack. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that the isolation that you talked about is something that that I wanted to mention, because I know we're going to concentrate on post divorce, but the isolation that you find yourself in and it is finding them finding yourself in situation, isn't it because it's not an immediate, like, suddenly all your friends disappear. It's it's a slow, your friends and family are distanced from you over a period of time. And that can impact after divorce as well. So just just for anybody who's finding themselves in that position, and sort of starting to recognise what, if there any, I don't know if there are any sort of signals that people should look out for that that kind of made me think, oh, yeah, you know, that feels like something that's happening to me.

Caron Kipping 8:19
Yeah, that isolation is one of the most powerful coercive control in tactics that people use. And that isolation tends to start from an early stage in the relationship, because the quicker they can isolate you from other people, the more power and the more control they have over you. So, like you say, it may not be obvious, it may be that, you know, they sell it to you almost like it's a thing, right? So it could be, you know, oh, well, we, you know, maybe we shouldn't live near to your family, maybe we should move into this bigger house, maybe we should move nearer to wherever I work, you know, so they kind of selling it to you like it's a good idea for you, and maybe for the children, but actually, their intention underneath it, is to distance you from your support network. So maybe they did, but they're not going to particularly like any of your friends or family because anybody that is a good influence around you is a potential threat. So everybody that comes into your world is a threat to them because they could potentially call out that abusive behaviour. They could boost your confidence so that actually you feel more able to stand up and say no. So they're, they're an influence, a positive influence. And so the person that's been abusive wants to get rid of any opportunity. Do you have that positive influence? So they may say things to you that make you distance yourself from your friends and family. So they may tell lies about, you know, your friends and family, they may say, or so and so said this about you, you know, I don't think that's right, I don't think you should have so much to do with them. Or they may just make you feel really awkward and difficult about having contact with them. So they may question you about how many times you're going around to see your mom or your friends or they may question you know, you when you are going out, they may send you repeated text messages while you're out. So it becomes really stressful. And in the end, you isolate yourself, you stop going out, because you go, you know what, it's just too much hassle. It's just not worth it, I may as well just stay at home. Or you may start to feel really uncomfortable when people are genuinely having conversations about home life and relationships, you may not feel able to talk about yours. So you, you kind of stopped going to those events, you make excuses, you make excuses for your partner as to why they can't come, or you know why they have to come even when they haven't been invited. So you're kind of covering up for their behaviour, and protecting them all the time. So other ways that you can feel isolated, is by not having any financial independence. So you don't feel that you can spend money on the things that you want to do. You may not feel able to work or be told that you don't need to work. Because your spouse can support you. Underneath that, which might seem like a nice thing, oh, I don't need to work, you know. But the intention is to stop you from having friends from having independence from having confidence. You know, it's to keep you at home in that little bubble, where they can control you. They can monitor you they know where you are, they know what you're doing. And yeah, and so it goes on and on.

Tamsin Caine 12:31
Yeah, it's it really is horrendous. And as well as you've been told stories about what your partner thinks of your friends and what they're saying. It can often happen the other way around as well, where where your partner is going to your friends and telling them things that you've said lies and turning them against you as well. I've certainly had a number of clients who've been in that position where they've been isolated by my lies being told to the people that they were friendly with and when your partner's very charming and very believable. It's that's, that's difficult. So let's, if we think about how somebody in that position who comes out of a divorce, who's been completely isolated, his friends been turned against them or, or they aren't sure that the friends with the with the people, they were different distance from their family. Are you starting completely from scratch again, because that sounds a pretty scary place to, to be to me

Caron Kipping 13:39
It is scary, but it's also a baseline to start from you can build from that. So, you know, there's nothing to stop you from reaching out to old friends to say, hey, you know, we haven't been in touch for a while. This is the reason. You know, the reason is because I was in a difficult relationship. However, we are now separated, open up to them, you know, you don't have to protect your eggs, as you know, anymore. You can be honest about what the situation was. And you can say, Look hands up, you know, I wasn't able to contact you. I did feel uncomfortable. But that's because this was going on. And it's really nice when you are able to reconnect with those friends again, and they can understand it. If they're not understanding, maybe they've listened to your spouse's version of events. And they're believing that then, you know, that's their choice. Maybe they'll see in time that that's not the correct version of what's happened. But then at least you know, and, you know, you can choose to have them in your life or not have them in your life. You know, I think once you have have come from being so controlled in a relationship. Now's the time to really figure out who you want in your life. You know, you only want people that are there to support you help you be positive around you. If people have their own judgments, then you know, that's up to them, let them go, they may come back in time, they may not stop, you know, now's the time to really consider who you want to be around. Can you tap into the support from the people that do support you, you know, your friends and family that do get it that has inaction, if you like, that are there for you to support you. And you don't need lots of friends in your life, you know, you just need a few key ones. And maybe you make new friends, you know, you can have a completely fresh start, you can connect with people that actually have been in similar situations to yourself, that's always really helpful. I've got a Facebook group where there's lots of women, and they all support each other because they've all been there similar situations. And, yeah, so So friends, and building up your confidence, getting back into the workplace, really kind of thinking about what it is that you want to do with your life now and who you want to connect with is a good starting point. And then you just keep building from that.

Tamsin Caine 16:30
Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you can let us have the link for your Facebook group, we'll put that in the show notes. And then anybody who,

Caron Kipping 16:38
it's a private Facebook, okay, so nobody gets in that group, unless they've invited by me, I'm very enough. Just because there is a safety aspect to it, of course, they want to feel that they are in a safe space. And so I do have to go through a bit of, you know, scrutinising, who's coming into training, because it's very personal, the stuff that they talk about in the group. But it's, I love it, because you know, they get a lot of strength from it. Yeah. But the isolation, we don't talk about it, you know, we kind of have that shame that we shouldn't really carry, you know, for what's happened, because it's not our fault. But, you know, if you can connect with people that have had similar experience, you don't have to justify yourself to them, you don't have to prove anything. You know, if you're having a wobbly day, you know, you can have a lovely day, fine, somebody in there will lift you up and say some of them don't, we'll help.

Tamsin Caine 17:51
Sounds it sounds good. And in a good, a good safe space. And, you know, if you've been if you've been in this situation, you absolutely need to say safe space and people that you can trust around you. So, I know that kind of we've talked about the issues that come from during the relationship that carry on after the relationship. But one of the, I suppose the big fears that people who've been in abusive relationship have is, is what, you know, is it going to carry on after even if we're not in the same house? Are they going to still be able to control me have power over me? What, what are some of the ways that you've seen that? That type of control going on post divorce?

Caron Kipping 18:45
I mean, I have to be realistic, and say yes. They're not going to change their behaviour, just because you've left you know, they are going to feel like they are the victim and all of this, they are going to still want to try and have that sense of power and control over you. And the way that they tend to do that is through financial control or through the children or through emotional abuse, and using any kind of communication that you have to have between you as that opportunity. So they will they will constantly seek out those opportunities. They will send you emails, and it will be a long email and there will be probably two paragraphs in there. That is actually about what they need to communicate with you about and they'll be you know, criticising you make little comments, you know, making you worry. They may use opportunities when you are kind of handing over the children for contact and, you know, taking the children back they may use that as an opportunity to say things that are going to make you worry or stress store fearful. So I think you have to accept that they're not going to have a personality change overnight, you are going to have some of these issues. But what you can do is you can try and shut down those opportunities as much as possible. And you can learn a few strategies that are going to help you deal with that. So it means that, yes, they are still going to try and dictate things, they are still going to try and have that level of control. But what you can do is make sure that that behaviour doesn't impact on you as much. So you get stronger, you learn how to manage that behaviour, you have a few tools in your toolkit to help you. And you change the way that you think about it, you change your mindset. So did it it's just a little part of your life. It's not all of your life. Because that's exhausting, right? If you've separated, you've separated for a reason. And you want to get on and move on with your life. So you have to find a way of managing it and putting it into perspective. And homepop, I call it compartmentalising. So think about it as and when you have to. And other than that, you focus on everything else that's going on in your life, which is all the positive stuff, right.

Tamsin Caine 21:28
And I guess that once you've left, once you're out there, it's slightly easier to do to minimise the effect that they have on you them kind of when they're there and in your face all the time.

Caron Kipping 21:44
Yeah, absolutely. Because you you have got distance from them, you've got physical distance, and you've got emotional distance, too. So you can stop those emails coming into your inbox. But you can choose when to answer them. You can choose if and when you respond. You can choose to ignore that as well. And you can choose how to feel about them. Right. So yes, having that physical distance definitely gives you that headspace so you can start to recover, then you can start to feel stronger, makes it more manageable.

Tamsin Caine 22:23
Yeah, so it's not likely that the abuser is going to have a personality change.

Caron Kipping 22:31
As much as we wish they were,

Tamsin Caine 22:34
Do you find that, that when, when an abuser, it finds a new relationship, that that, that limits the the kind of desire to control or actually does it not make a blind bit of difference, now, they'll just carry on,

Caron Kipping 22:53
it depends. For some, that gives them a new sense of direction, if you like. So, if their behaviour is not working with you, they may unfortunately, repeat the same patterns in the new relationship and they will move on. And for some people, they will move on very quickly as well. You know, they, they will move on from relationship to relationship and keep trying to keep that control, your relationships don't last very long, if they're that type of, you know, personality. And that can as awful as it is for the person that they're in the new relationship with. For you, that might make your life a bit easier. But for others, they will be like a dog with a bone and they won't care if they're in a new relationship, they will still keep that focus and attention on you because they are still carrying that resentment towards you. They still feel like you should never have left them. And that they need to do whatever it takes to feel better about themselves and to punish you for that leave in. So I know it's a horrible concept, isn't it that somebody would go to those great lengths to punish you just for leaving. But that's the way that they think. Which is why it's important to get that support to know the strategies because if you're going to have to deal with this person for the next few years, you know, particularly if you've got very young children, you have to deal with them for a long time. So you've got to get smart and you've got to get stronger and you've got to get some strategies because otherwise you are going to be exhausted. Yeah, absolutely. Because you do think what was the point in leaving But you have to put, again, put it into perspective and focus on all of the positives that you have gotten out the opportunities you have got to recover and to move on no matter what they do.

Tamsin Caine 25:14
Yeah, absolutely. I've heard it said, and I don't know how this how true this is, and I'm sure you're you're told me if it's utter nonsense. But I've heard it said that, that people who have been attracted to abusers are attracted again to that same sorts of personality type in the future. That is that true, and are the things that that we should be on the lookout for that there should be waving the red flags and making us run away before we get too deeply into?

Caron Kipping 25:53
It definitely can be the case. That's why we talk about breaking the cycle. As abusive people continue the cycle, they will go from relationship to relationship. So will the person that has been the victim of that abuse, they can go from relationship to relationship, hoping that the next one is better? Sometimes if the next relationship isn't as obviously abusive as the last one, they can be lulled into a false sense of security, thinking, okay, then they find themselves much later on, again, having found themselves in a very coercive and subtly abusive relationship. So absolutely, yes, you can end up unfortunately for them for the same scenario, again, which is why it's so important to recognise those early warning signs. Okay. This is something I'm absolutely passionate about teaching people, when they come to me, I'm like, Don't worry, don't worry about dating after your relationship. You've just got to, you've just got to be smart, right? There are nice people out there, not everybody is abusive and controlling. There are really nice people out there who are absolutely 100% able to have a healthy relationship after an abusive relationship, you've just got to know what you're looking for. Don't be swayed by, you know, their persuasive tactic. And know those red flags. So the red flags, key ones are when it's moving too quickly. Alright, so you know them five minutes, and the next minute, they want to move in with you. They're declaring undying love for you declaring that your soulmates want to get engaged, want to meet the children, all of that kind of stuff, that's a definite red flag. Okay, the way that they talk about their previous partners, listen to that, that can be a red flag, if they have got children with their previous partner, and they're not allowed to see those children. You have to question why. Then listen to the tone of how they're talking about their ex partner, or they always say no, she's, you know, she was a bit she did this. She did that she hasn't let me see the children, though. If it's very kind of accusation to me. And it's always their fault. If they're always making excuses about other things as well, you know, they can't hold a job down. They've been sacked from their job, because it's the managers fault. You know, it's always everybody else's fault, right? It's never their fault. So if they're never ever able to take responsibility for anything, that's a red flag. If they don't have great relationships with their family, if they don't have a lot of friends, that can be a red flag, because these type of personality types, they're not likeable people, really. They can be charmers, like you say, you know, they can do work do very well in the workplace. But are they really liked? Yeah. So you have to think about? Yeah, they're not really likeable people. They're not people that you genuinely like to be around for too long. What are the red flags? Oh, there's so many red flags. There are so many red flags. And if they're trying to put pressure on you to do things that you don't want to do, if they are being very cagey, if they're changing their story, sometimes, you know, you have to be very careful with online dating now, because people tell so many lies on online dating. They you know, pretend to be people that they're actually not you know, some They pretend that they want a relationship. Actually, no, they don't. They just want to, you know, bit of sex on the side or, you know, they might even be married already. So. So you've got to do your research, you've got to stay safe if you're doing online dating. But don't discount it. You know, I have known people meet people online and go on to have very happy relationship

Tamsin Caine 30:26
My best friend married her absolutely fabulous, new husband, online. And here's the best thing that's happened to him. Yeah, he is lovely. Absolutely Fabulous. Yeah, absolutely. There are definitely occasion as poses, you know, if you're coming out of, of a bad relationship, or an abusive relationship, you just want to be a little bit, take things slow, and be super careful that, that you're not falling for the same guy again, I suppose

Caron Kipping 30:57
You've gotta educate yourself, Oh, well, and also don't jump straight into another relationship, you've got to take some time for yourself afterwards, you know, you deserve it. First of all, this time back again. And once you do get, you know, if you do get into a relationship, but ever like being in a relationship is not the be all and end all to happiness. Right? I know, people who are single who are incredibly happy, and I've got no intentions of being in a relationship, you know, we're brought up to think that being in a relationship and having to point to children, and, you know, having a happy, you know, family home with a white picket fence, and everything is like the goal. You know, it doesn't have to be the goal. You've got to love yourself first. That's really important before you get into a relationship, and you've got to know what you want in a relationship. You've got to learn from the past, learn from the mistakes, and really understand what it is that you want. And if you don't really understand that, then you shouldn't even be looking for a relationship, because you're going to end up in trouble.

Tamsin Caine 32:10
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. You mentioned about loving yourself and about spending spending time on your own not not necessarily in a relationship. I kind of feel that they're, particularly the women that I've worked with, who are in who've coming out of these sorts of relationships don't really even know who they are anymore. Because their sense of self has been taken away over over the time they've been in, in the in the marriage or civil partnership. What, what sorts of things can people do to start rediscovering who they are.

Caron Kipping 32:53
So first of all, start questioning what you like, you know, just day to day stuff, because you do things out of habit. Particularly when you've been in a controlling relationship. So you will eat certain foods, you will go to certain places, because that's the habit that you were in before, you will have been told the things that you like to eat, the places you like to go, you know, the things that you're allowed to do, you know, so you have to start rediscovering yourself. And it can be really daunting, it can feel really overwhelming, it can seem quite scary, because your confidence will probably have been really knocked and you will have been told everything that you can't do. So now you have to try and flip it around and start thinking well, what can I do? You know, what do I actually like, and start embracing it as a new, like learning opportunity. And it's really so lovely. I love that part of it. When I see people really start thriving again. I had a lady this morning, and she said I've booked myself in before, you know, a massage. I went out by hair dance. You know, before my hair was long, I've had it cut really short. And I love it. You know, she never really liked long hair before her husband's life before. But now she questioned it. And she thought actually, I can have my hair cut short if I wanted to. So she did. And when you do those kinds of things that really gives you a boost of confidence. And, yeah, just just all of those new learning curves really, you know, start thinking about what you can do not what you can't do the lady before and she was separated and she said I've lit a fire for the first time that I was incapable of lighting the coal fire and she said I've done it and so if you can stop I'm keeping a list of those things that you're achieving things that are going well, the things that you like, it really starts to create this sense of self, of who you are.

Tamsin Caine 35:11
That's a great idea. I love that. Yeah, I must pay. If you've been told or even what you like eating and why you like going that? That's just, that's mind blowing, isn't it? You know, just to start thinking about when you're eating up, do? Do you know, do I really like this? Is this something that I want to be that I want to be making for myself? Yeah. Gosh, that's tiny, tiny steps, isn't it? But I guess it is baby steps until you until you gain your confidence, isn't it?

Caron Kipping 35:38
Yeah, it's absolutely baby steps. And there will be some days where you don't feel like you've got the energy to do that kind of nurturing, and that self care kind of stuff. There will be times when you just think, oh, I want a frozen pizza out of the freezer.

Tamsin Caine 36:03
Like a frozen pizza.

Caron Kipping 36:06
With a frozen pizza, and you have to do what you have to do to make life easy for yourself. Definitely, there will be times when you know, maybe you do have your hair cut, and you don't like it, right? That's fine. It's not the end of the world, right? Your hair will grow back, you can change your colour, right? It's not the end of the world, and you're not gonna get criticised for it. You're not get berated for it, you're not going to have a three hour conversation about how awful your hair is, you know, it's, it's done. And you can move on. It's, it's learning, isn't it?

Tamsin Caine 36:45
Yeah. That sort of thing that you kind of? It's those things like spending some money on yourself and treating yourself and, and, you know, was it worth it? What but it doesn't matter whether sometimes it doesn't matter whether it was worth it as and not having to have that. That argument or that conversation can be as rewarding as, as not, as maybe whatever it was that you were doing, I think yeah, as well content.

Caron Kipping 37:13
And if you are having a hard time with your eggs, if you can focus in on those little wins. Yeah, that helps. That it helps you cope better with the other stuff that is still a bit hot. So just being able to wake up in the morning, without that kind of sick feeling in your stomach wondering what mood they're going to be in that day. Just being able to have coffee in bed, if you want to. You know, just being able to do all of those little things in a day that to people that haven't been in a controlling relationship. You think, oh, gosh, it's just a small thing. Right. But to somebody that's been very controlled. You know, particularly if that's for years and years. Those little things are massive, you know, they are really big freedoms. And it's it is about having that freedom of choice. Yeah, they're huge.

Tamsin Caine 38:15
Yeah, no, absolutely. And if you are struggling with an axe, who's who's still kind of getting in your head? Do you have any tips for what people can do? I know, we've talked a bit about compartmentalising, and celebrating little wins. So anything else that we should be thinking about?

Caron Kipping 38:43
And I think definitely educating yourself on it. You know, in the, in the book, it goes through all of the different types of behaviours, and just kind of really understanding how it's impacted on you is really the first step to really understanding that you're not alone, that your experience is not unique to you. These are tactics, right? Because they all use very similar tactics. It's like they don't sequence school somewhere. No, this is not unique to you, right? So when you can start to understand that then you can start to emotionally detach from it. Right, then that helps you start recovering. So that's the first point is educate yourself, really understand who it is that you're dealing with. And then start really working on yourself boosting your self confidence. Really start connecting with positive people create like a little support team around you. Really think about what it is that you need to do in order to move on. So the practical stuff, right, start really working on the practical stuff. But really factor in Some of those things that are gonna help build that resilience for you. So I use a technique called the ABC technique. And it's one of the most powerful things, I think. So, because there are actions that you need to do to ace the actions, some of those can be quite hard. And some of those are not immediate. You know, if you're going to start dealing with finances, if you're going to start trying to put parenting plan in place, but it can be a lot of to and fro in, and it can take a long time. But if you just keep chipping away at those actions, and at least you, you can see things moving forwards, right. But you can't just focus on the actions, otherwise, you'll be drained, right? You need someone a bit more positive in your life, right? So do your bees at the same time, right diarize in those times to do those things that help you cope better, that make you feel happier than yourself, right to build your resilience so that you'll be good at resilience. So that is booking in a yoga class, you know, doing a meditation online, going and getting your hair cut, booking in a coffee with a friend, going for a walk, sitting in the garden, just actually sitting there going, You know what, I can sit my own garden, right? I don't have to talk to anybody. I can just enjoy listening to the birds. How nice is that? Right? Yeah. And that is so important for your mental well being and your strengths. And then you'll see is creating a happier future that is focusing on just and looking forward. Because it's so easy to get stuck in the here and now and what's difficult to get over what's happened in the past to be wishing that things have been different. You know, you can't get stuck in that you can't change it. So there's no point going over and over. Right? It is what it is. start focusing on the future where you want to be, start booking a holiday pitch in a holiday, start looking at new restaurants that you want to go to, you know if there's things that you've always wanted to do that you could never do before. Do him go and vote in go horse riding. Just you know, contact a friend, right that you haven't spoken to for ages. But yourself on an online course. Maybe you want to career change. Maybe there's some big things that you want to do. But maybe there's some little things, little goals that you could look at. Yeah, small steps. When you when you work on all those three things in tandem your A's, B's and C's. It creates a bit more balanced, I think. Yeah. Which makes things easier.

Tamsin Caine 42:45
No, that's definitely, definitely good advice.

Caron Kipping 42:50
It does get better. It does. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You have the power to make it better. Doesn't matter what they're doing. It does get better your children get older. Right, you get stronger, you get smarter.

Tamsin Caine 43:03
It does get better. Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely does. I know that in an ideal world, I would introduce you to somebody in a abusive relationship, so that you could help them prepare to leave and work with them all the way through. But in reality, I know for me, I don't tend to meet those people until they've left. Which is which is great, because they've left but you know, as you say, in your book, they've probably tried that. I think the average is eight times isn't it? For you actually leave. So they've probably been in a pretty horrible position for quite a long time and been trying to leave for quite a long time they think. But I know how much you've helped clients that I've introduced to it in that stage in going through the divorce process. What's their position after divorce, do you because you're called the divorce coach. Do you work with people after they're after they've come out of the other side? So if they weren't ready, like my feeling is that as soon as I meet somebody, if they're, if they're struggling emotionally, like they need to see some more whether it's divorce coach like you, whether it's therapist, whether it's counsellor, whatever they need emotional support, as well as the legal people as well as the financial people. It needs to be a team around them, but But afterwards, if they've not been ready beforehand or not had access to finances poses, do they do the possibility because quite often, the finances are locked down for people in this position until they come out the other side and maybe get their settlement. People can come and work with you Anytime,

Caron Kipping 45:01
Anytime, so they can come if they're in that abusive relationship and just thinking about leaving, thinking about ending that relationship, and they just want some clarity on what their options might look like on how that conversation might happen in the first place. And, you know, we can go through all of that. And it's all done at their own pace, you know, there's no pressure to actually follow that through, it has to be noise. But at least I can help them cope a bit better, I can make sure that they're safe. And you know, and at least be aware of the options. If they're not ready, that's absolutely fine. They can come back to me when they are ready. If though, right in the middle of the divorce process, again, that's absolutely fine. You know, I can support them through that I can help them make decisions as they go through that process. And similarly, when they come out, and it's all done and dusted, and they've got their settlement and the divorce is done. At that point, they may, that may be the time when it really hits home, what they've been through, and they start to have a wobble, they start to go, then they maybe don't know what direction their life is gonna go in now, and they struggle with that. Absolutely, that's when I can help them with all of those tools and techniques that will help them move on from that. So I help people that all different stages, people that are separated, that aren't married people that, you know, it doesn't matter what their financial situation is, if they can't afford the one to one coaching, or they maybe the regular coaching isn't for them, because they've got very busy lives, they're just physically cannot fit that into their schedule, they can dip in and out. So they can have what are called hotspot sessions, where we will just discuss very specific stuff, and then they'll go away again, and carry on. And then I have other different things ritual completely free. So like say there's a book, there's a Facebook group, there's a newsletter that goes out monthly. There's the coaching there live group coaching sessions that I'm just starting to deliver now. And the first one is on Sunday around communication snakes. I started with the hot topic, because that's usually Yeah, I thought go for the thing that everybody struggles with the most is that communication? How do I read an email? How do I respond to this? You know, it sends me to a real panic. So yeah, and those again, you know, they're 25 pounds. So they're lower cost, but you know, you there's different options for everybody, it doesn't matter what your budget, what you're trying to constraints are, you can get the help. And like you say, it's about having that support team around you.

Tamsin Caine 48:08
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that if I've learned everything from the last four, four and a half years, that it is about having, making sure that people have got that emotional support that says, as valuable as anything because it's the support for what they've going they're going through and and you're not the only one and other people have been there and this is doesn't make you an exception, it doesn't mean that you've done something wrong. But it's also about building them building themselves up for the future I was kind of liken it to to a caterpillar in the chrysalis. And then as they come through the other side like you said time does make it make things get better and I've seen a client in there's one in particular who had a cause personally controlling husband and she was one of the first clients that I worked with and I've seen her literally grow wings and fly and she is about to launch her own business she's changed direction slightly she's got a group of friends now which she didn't have before because exit isolated her and just to see that growth. It's a beautiful thing to watch and it makes it makes our life our work worth doing doesn't it?

Caron Kipping 49:36
Yeah, it really does. And when other people when you can tell those stories to other clients as well, that gives them that they can do similar things. Yeah. And you know, they absolutely can and when they have that emotional support it makes although that divorce journey, that separation journey is difficult. It may See, because they're not alone, because they can call somebody up to talk things. Because they can make better decisions as well that actually impact their lives in a more positive way. So it makes that journey is easier. And they're more likely to get a better outcome. If they're thinking clearly, and making, making those good decisions.

Tamsin Caine 50:29
Yeah, you're absolutely right. That seems perfect note to finish off. Karen, can you just before we get, just let us know where we can get ahold of you. So if there's anybody listening who feels that they could do with your help and support? Where do they find you.

Caron Kipping 50:48
So you can go to my website, which is I'm on all the social media sites, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, all of those. If you want to sign up to the newsletter, you do that through the website as well on the front page. And I will say, if anybody is waiting for an email from me, or you do email me, please, please, please check your junk. Because I don't know what it is with emails these days. They're so secure, they tend to reject quite a lot of things. Yeah. Because my email starts with info, as well. It's not very helpful, unfortunately. But it's too late to change it. So check your junk, if you're if you are waiting on a response. But yeah, you can DM me go through the website. There's lots of blogs on there and information that will help you. And yeah, just get in touch. And I always offer everybody a complimentary call anyway, just to really kind of figure out what type of support is best for them. And if it's not me, that's fine, then I will know somebody that is right. So

Tamsin Caine 52:03
Yeah, absolutely. That's brilliant. And we'll put put some links in the show notes to the to your website and to your various social media. So we're so people can click on those and find you Karen, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been fantastic talking to you as I knew it would be.

Caron Kipping 52:21
Thank you

Tamsin Caine 52:28
I hope you enjoy the episode of the smart divorce podcast. If you would like to get in touch please have a look in the show notes for our details or go onto the website www dot smart Also, if you are listening on Apple podcasts or on Spotify, and you wouldn't mind leaving us a lovely five star review. That would be fantastic. I know that lots of our listeners are finding this is incredibly helpful in their journey through separation divorce, and dissolving a civil partnership. Also, if you would like some foot further support, we do have Facebook group now. It's called separation divorce and dissolution UK. Please do go on to Facebook, search up the group and we'd be delighted to have you join us. The one thing I would say is do please answer their membership questions. Okay, have a great day and take care


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