Kindness in Divorce

Kindness in Divorce - pod for Smart Divorce with Tosh Brittan

Tamsin speaks to founder of The Divorce Goddess, Tosh Brittan. Divorce coach Tosh has recently launched her new programme to help those divorcing to be kind to themselves, above all else. In this episode we talk more about Tosh’s journey to becoming a divorce coach, setting up The Divorce Goddess and why kindness is so important to her.

Tosh Brittan is a divorce life coach specialising in transforming the divorce experience from a kindness perspective. A child of divorced parents, a divorcee and a single parent she chose a different approach, one which has served her well in healing the experience and more conscious coparenting. She is also the founder of the Divorce Goddess brand and podcast.

Featured in the Sunday Times and Weekend FT, BBC, ITV and Sky, she’s also featured in the Spears 500 guide of top client advisors for HNW individuals.
CH: Divorce Goddess

Tamsin is a Chartered Financial Planner with over 20 years experience. She works with couples and individuals who are at the end of a relationship and want agree how to divide their assets FAIRLY without a fight.

You can contact Tamsin at or arrange a free initial meeting using She is also part of the team running Facebook group Separation, Divorce and Dissolution UK

Tamsin Caine MSc., FPFS
Chartered Financial Planner
Smart Divorce Ltd


(The transcript has been created by an AI, apologies for any mistakes)

Tamsin Caine 0:06
Hello, and welcome to the Smart Divorce podcast. In series 4, we’re going to be talking to various different professionals and authors who have gone through divorce and dissolution of a civil partnership to talk about the future, and how you can start helping things to look much more positively. And we have some fantastic guests lined up. But if there is anything specific that you would like us to cover, please do get in touch. And you can contact me through our website, www dot smart And I look forward to hearing from you soon. Enjoy!

Hello, today I’m going to be joined by Tosh Brittan, otherwise known as the Divorce Goddess. I had such a fantastic conversation with Tosh today. Lots of laughs surprisingly, we talk all about her work as a divorce life coach, and how she believes in using kindness in divorce and largely kindness to yourself rather than kindness to other people. And because it starts from within. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I do. Let’s jump right in.

Hello, and welcome to the Smart Divorce Podcast. I’m delighted to be joined today by the Divoce Goddess otherwise known as Tosh Brittan but I really like a Divorce Goddess. So I think we might just call you that for today.

Tosh Brittan 1:55
So funny. Everybody says that and I’m literally going: “No, no, it’s just the thing.”

Tamsin Caine 2:00
It’s beautiful. It’s lovely. I love it. Fabulous name. Thank you for joining me today. So that’s so cool. And I have a proper introduction. So I’m going to give you your your full full on introduction. So in 2021 Tosh co authored number one best seller mindfulness for challenging times with her chapter mindful ways through conflict. And she is the divorce life coach and trained mindfulness teacher which I think, Gosh, this year, we all absolutely need. She started her Divorce Goddess blog in 2014. And as a child of divorced parents, she’s chose kindness as her foundation of her divorce. Her coaching embodies a different approach to conflict and injure and divorce, empowering her clients to transform their divorce experience. She was featured in The Times Sunday Times and weekend ft, BBC, ITV and sky. She’s also spoken on mental health summits and podcasts, and has her own podcast and the divorce goddess, which is ranked number 41 in the US and number 16 in the UK relationship charts. So she’s listed divorce consultant in the space 500 directory 2021 addition, which is some a heck of an achievement. That is fabulous. Josh, thank you so much for joining me. i As you know, I’m a massive fan of your work. And I wanted to start off by talking to you about your work as a divorce coach. So how did you get into that work?

Tosh Brittan 3:43
So I started my blog, I got about 100,000 hits on the blog. And it was kind of back in the day where nobody really talked about the emotional side of divorce. And it was something that I really needed. And I’ve been to a counsellor or a couple of counsellors and they didn’t really know about divorce and nobody fully understood what I was feeling and, and so I just kind of wrote about it. And I just wrote about everything I was feeling and all these people started messaging me and then I set up a Facebook group. And I, which I then closed last year because I wanted it to be about empowering people and and it was, yeah, it was it sort of changed a bit which I’m actually thinking about opening up another one but and then people just started asking me questions and someone said Do you do any coaching and I’ve been sort of mindfulness coach and teacher anyway, so and I just realised that you know, having gone through pretty much bankruptcy overseas moves, divorce. That actually I was quite well placed to talk and understand the fears and the emotions and and and just sort of be quite empathetic about, you know how people were feeling. And, yeah, and so yeah, it just sort of carried on. And I was, you know, anyway. And yeah, I’ve almost finished my life coaching comm my certification anyway, so I’m Yeah, I don’t know, it was just a weird thing it just kind of fell into and just I think when we try and like, when I grow up, I want to be this, it doesn’t always happen the way we think it’s gonna happen. And if somebody said to me, Oh, you’re gonna get into divorce of audit just last a day, or no way. I’m not going to do that. But actually, for me, it’s lovely. And like, people say to me, you know, do you get affected by it? And, you know, do you get upset, or, you know, you feel kind of exhausted at the end of the day. And none of this touches me, I just want to say now I literally am so blessed, and I love what I do. And just those moments, probably a bit like new time. So in that, you know, there’s that light bulb moment inside your clients, and they get it and they suddenly discover their power, and they feel more confident their self worth goes up, and you just go, Wow, you can’t buy this. You can’t buy this amazing thing you get when your clients are just flying. It’s It’s amazing. So that’s kind of why I went with it. Yeah, I still am. And you know, and then I got the podcast. And obviously, that’s, that’s gone on. Yeah. And what’s really amazing as well is I’m in I’m on a webinar on a panel, talking about conflict and co parenting. So that is something that’s coming up at the beginning of July for professionals, run by our family was a Rich’s co parenting out. So really excited about that. And I’m really happy to be there as a divorcee who has experienced it, and as somebody who can help other people as well, now,

Tamsin Caine 7:05
yeah, I think that’s, that’s amazing. And I think it does, probably not family lawyers so much. But I think a lot of the a lot of us who work in the divorce arena have been there ourselves. And I think it massively helps because you kind of, you’re gonna have had a different divorce to the people you work with. And things are going to have been different because most people’s are different, but you’ll know some of the fears that they’re experiencing, and some of the emotions and some of the ups and downs. So yeah, in terms of working with people who are going through divorce, when when do you start? Is it like, right, I separated yesterday, I gave Tosh a call.

Tosh Brittan 7:51
Brilliant. I prefer actually, for them to give me a ring before they actually have a conversation. Are they supposed to cut? Oh, yeah, I just think if you if there are people thinking, oh, goodness me, do I do it? Or do I not you just need to get support. And a different I mean, for me, you know, I don’t know how other divorce coaches work, I think pretty much all work along same line. But for me, it’s, for me divorce is a life experience from which you can learn, it’s an opportunity, although it doesn’t feel like it. But the sooner you get yourself into that mindset, the you know that the firt, the less you kind of slipped on that very slippery slope that can happen very, very quickly, of a being very, very angry, being bitter and resentful. And it all builds up, you know, we create this sort of new neural pathway of, you know, the divorce that we can so easily slip into and, and for me, actually, you know, there’s a whole lot of stuff that’s gone on anyway, that has got you to this place. Whether you’re aware of it or not, on some level, I believe everybody kind of knows that this stuff going down your marriage, and you’re kind of you know, brushing it under the carpet thinking, Oh, it’s just part of married life. And when it bites us at the end, you kind of go, oh, yeah, there was. But you know, that that would have sort of created a, you know, a, a lesser deep neural pathway, but it’s one that you can start working from from day one, so it doesn’t get any deeper. And I believe that divorce is like an opportunity to grow and to build and create amazing foundations for the rest of your life. And it feels very hard thinking, you know, especially if you’re at the beginning of the process, thinking crikey, that just feels massive and overwhelming. But it’s just small steps every day. It’s like, it’s a habit like anything else. You know, you’re talking about your runs game to do the Manchester marathon, you know, and we all have to train. And in fact, I wish I heard something the other day say I’m not the other day a few months ago saying, you know, we all have to do what we don’t want to do to get to where we want to go.

Tamsin Caine 10:08
Yeah, definitely. That’s really good advice, I think. So one of the things I’ve come to understand pretty clearly, is that the emotional side of things needs to be sorted, or at least touched upon first, you have to start getting your emotional ducks. Yeah.

Tosh Brittan 10:33
I could already see that. Coming out of your head on this on the zoom on the camera thinking, emotional ducks? Yeah, you need to get your emotional ducks in a row, right at the beginning before you start needing to make big decisions, because you can’t do that. Unless you’re in the right emotional state. And then you’re less likely to give a something stuck in the future. Yes, absolutely.

Tamsin Caine 10:59
Yeah, totally. Right. It’s about neural pathways. So for our listeners, who, for whom, neural pathways you might as well have asked us to talk bout Einstein’s theory of relativity, just run through what a neural pathway is, and what you’re talking about.

Tosh Brittan 11:20
Okay, yeah, sorry, I just kind of, say a neural pathway is a habit of thinking. So, that might be if Oh, he always does or she always does that to me. And it’s your go to. And it’s almost like, you know, if you think of it like, Okay, so we’re just talking about pathway toward a strip of earth. Yeah. And actually no, the example of a park in summer. Instead, there are paths that people travel on, and they walk across the grass and walk cross for us. And sooner or later, the grass wears away. And then you’ve got that pathway.

Tamsin Caine 11:58

Tosh Brittan 11:58
and actually, what and if you’ve ever done it, and you’ve ever been in the path, a park, even in the summer, and you’ve seen that pathway, you kind of go, you automatically just want to walk on it, because where else has walked on it, and that’s the way you would normally walk. But actually just notice and walk a different choose a different path across the grass. And just notice, you know, and I call them the divorce mind monkeys, when they’re going, Oh, why you’re not walking on the path? Why not, you know, walking along that part that well worn path. And with anything, it’s like going to the gym, it’s like, really, it’s like training your muscles from day one. It’s like, you know, you know, you might have muscles that, you know, you’ve been using for years. And it’s about using new ones for, you know, a new set of exercises, and just slowly using those and building that that pathway in your mind. So your mind goes, Ah, I’m at the gym, this is what I’m going to be doing. And I can I can manage this. And what the divorce mind monkeys do is they jump in, and they they want to keep you safe. So they’re going to ask you to question what you’re doing, which is something new, whether it’s going to be good for you. So on top of being exhausted, divorce, exhausted, mind fog and everything else, you’ve got these little divorce mind monkeys, asking you to question everything, which is why the more we practice, and we adopt these habits, we can create our new new path or neural pathway across the park. Does that makes sense?

Tamsin Caine 13:37
Yes, it does.

Tosh Brittan 13:38
Did I explain that clearly enough?

Tamsin Caine 13:42
When you talk about divorce my monkeys when I was a child, I had some plastic monkeys that you could hang off. Yeah, and make a really long and when I think about those, it’s those like hanging together on my shoulder that I always think of.

Tosh Brittan 13:59
It’s funny because I’ve actually got a blog and I created I found my children’s plastic monkeys and like I hung them all up. And then I took a photo of me looking at those monkeys and it’s on one of my blog posts of face golf with me looking

Tamsin Caine 14:16
so funny. I love that I do like the idea of being able to kind of redirect and rewire your neural pathways in my line thinking about neural pathways loved your talk you’re about walking across the path on a park because that that totally makes sense. Now I’ve always thought about it about like an electronic circuit connected to one thing and then if that’s not serving you well you can reconnect it to something that serves you better Yeah, right if I think that was it, but it’s roughly about is it

Tosh Brittan 14:52
Yeah, but the my monkeys again we’re going no, don’t reconnect because you might get hurt if you try something different. It might hurt you, they want to protect you, there might be a sabre toothed Tiger waiting for you, they might be the unknown. And, you know, whoever, wherever we want to call you, right, and so whatever. But yeah, so it’s just kind of, but this is why I’m kind of all about, like getting reconnected to yourself, like getting out of your head, reconnect to your body. And that is about, you know, whether you’re taking deep breaths, you know, whether you’re drinking enough water, whether you’re feeding yourself well, with good healthy food, whether it’s getting outside, getting some fresh air doing some exercise, because our body is the best barometer of how we’re feeling. You know, if we’re stressed, we’re gonna feel it in our body. If we’re not drinking water, we’re gonna have a headache, right? You know, stomach rumbles, you know, we get hangry if we haven’t eaten, we’re tired. Or if we’re overtired, everything is in our bodies, and the more we can listen to our body, and kind of really come back into looking after ourselves, then we are more able to observe, when we go into a meeting, or we send a text back, or a message or an email, or anything around divorce, that we can do it from a place of, we have like a buffer, we can kind of get out shelving, but hangry, I might just go write this email have signed, we come back and read it, just notice whether I could use some better, you know, less inflammatory triggering language, whether I can be you know, it’s like, you know, turning up to mediation, it’s like, you know, if you’ve, if your go to is a load of coffee in the morning, and no breakfast and you turn up to a meeting with anybody, there’s going to be no surprise if you’re a bit hyper and maybe a little bit angsty, and you’re a bit Supercharged. So it’s like, no, come on, right? Especially if you haven’t slept as well. So it’s like, have some breakfast, reduce the coffee, reduce the sugary foods you might want to eat beforehand, and just kind of give yourself the best opportunity to be able to, you know, not slip into that neural pathway.

Right? This is fascinating for me, because I am one of the least self-aware people you will ever

really surprises me. You’re doing a very good job, right? And we otherwise because your Instagram feed, I’m like, Wow, she’s so cool. It’s like, you know, where you are cool anyway, but autonomy.

Tamsin Caine 17:29
So I have no idea. So all these I understand about drinking water and sleeping properly and feeding your body with the right, right foods and fuel and so on. However, I find it really difficult to go to kind of look inside myself for what’s what I’m not doing right, what I’m missing. So have you got any tips that would help lunatics like me? Who have zero self-awareness when it comes to these things?

Tosh Brittan 18:02
Okay, especially for lunatics like you. I used to be a lunatic, until I had to learn good and proper and hard and really eat humble pie and everything else I had to do in my life to get to the space. So there’s a really amazing Dr. Christopher Willard is his name. And he created this. This basic this acronym hungry, angry, lonely, tired halt. And so why would suggest that anybody who’s listening as you write down h, a, l t, and then put an eye underneath as well? Like to explain why. And so h is for hungry. So on your fridge? Yeah. And I suggest for all the family as well, because if you’re going through something tough as well, your children might be going through something tough. And if people don’t really want to talk, they can’t express themselves or they’re a bit disconnected from because they’re in their heads and they’re going through stuff and they’re worried about force for all this other stuff. Yeah. Put this on your fridge put it somewhere that whole family can go. I think you’re feeling this and you go up. Do you know what? Yeah, I am. So H is for hungry. Yeah. A is for angry. Yeah. L is for feeling lonely. So maybe you’ve had a bad day at school or maybe you haven’t been dreading bridging a day and just feeling a little bit like feel sorry for yourself like really need to hug

Tamsin Caine 19:31
That’s my sweet treats moment.

Tosh Brittan 19:35
that one too. And then the t is for tired, you know, so you know, somebody’s spinning bit grumpy. They’ve had a bad day, but I’ve meeting or bad school, whatever it is, and t is for tired. And then the other one because I used to teach mindfulness to cancer patients and women going through and beyond cancer. And they said what about ill, no, absolutely right, we need to put it in there as well. So that’s I, and particularly these days as well, because I think people worried about their health as well. And just have these five letters with what they mean side it on the fridge. And if you’re feeling a bit like that, or one of your children is I remember my son used to come in and be like, which one are you feeding and he points normally to hungry. And that’s why you’re a bit off calorie a bit grumpy because you’re actually hangry. You’re hungry. So yeah, so that’s what I was saying.

Tamsin Caine 20:35
That’s brilliant, we, we have things so I have a 17 year old. And he, he clearly displays when his blood sugar drops, so we have to feed him a record sounds ridiculous, he’s 17. But we have to make sure he eats at regular intervals. Because otherwise, he will just get mad. Like properly mad. So yeah, that

Tosh Brittan 21:00
sounds like my my dog in the puppies at the moment, they will start screaming, I read couple of words, she just wanders in there opening your eyes going, Oh, blimey, not again.. true. But the more we kind of like focus is like, you know, if you’re not a morning person, and you’re gonna feel a bit, you know, you’ve got a meeting to go into, or you’ve got mediation, or you’ve got, you know, if you’re a morning person, perhaps don’t book an appointment, in the morning with your lawyer, or your financial advisor or planner, whoever or coach or whoever you’re, you know, you need help from, because you’re not going to be, you know, on tip top. But also, it’s okay, if you’re not a morning person, you know, we’re all not, we’re not all designed to be the same. It’s like if somebody says, Oh, I’ve got to go running, I’ve got to do some exercise, I’ve got to go in the morning, and you hate it as a result. It’s okay to change it and go running in the evening or in the afternoon or find somewhere else when you know, another time when you can do it. I mean, obviously, if you’ve got small children might be slightly difficult, but, but just sort of getting to that, you know, I think we have this this thing in life that we have to do it in a certain way. And as soon as we have to, we feel we have to do it in a certain way, or we should do we almost block it and it becomes difficult. So you know, really notice as well, for awareness what works for you and what doesn’t, and if something just repeatedly feels difficult, maybe just kind of go okay, how can I do this differently?

Tamsin Caine 22:32
Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. That’s more stuff that I need to think what what times of day, am I best? So I want to talk to you about kindness, because this is a huge focus for you and the work that you’re doing with your divorcing clients. And it I remember, it was only a few months ago, reading for the first time that a post that you’d put on Instagram about kindness. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that’s the word that just if I was going through divorce and reading that I’m in, because that is so important. So why is it so important to you?

Tosh Brittan 23:26
Because it means if you choose kindness, then you’re choosing to look after yourself, and you’re choosing a different way. And I think the go to for so many people, they’ve only felt like you just have to go to war or battle or fight. And I never use any of those words, because actually, it doesn’t. I think I think the problem when you say kindness and divorce, people go, Oh, well, that means you can be a doormat and you’re going to be like, you’re going to be run roughshod over and you’re not going to make good decisions, and you’re going to come out worse. That’s not what it’s about. It’s actually about you know, trusting the professionals you have in your life, like your lawyer and your financial planner, advisor or whoever you’re using to do the job that you are paying them to do. And then kindness is about you is about looking after you. It’s about you and 5, 10, 15, 20 years time, turning round and saying somebody says to you, how’s your divorce and you go actually, I had a divorce, you know, it wasn’t great, but actually can say we are hard hand on your heart that you don’t feel, you know, that resentment, that anger that, that that guilt, that regret, and all that stuff. And we’ve all we all know people, you know, who’ve been through divorce and you just feel it off them you just I just think I just did not want to be that person. And that’s what isn’t the whole time. Have my coaching is about, but also because, you know, I’ve got parents who are, you know, 30 years old don’t even talk to each other and and you just think no, no, that’s not going to happen not on my mother. No. And actually, it’s just kind of going actually you can do this, you can do this in a nice way. So you at least know that you showed up for yourself. And you honoured yourself and you didn’t have to feel like you’re fighting and I guess kind of it all came from that I talked about his conversation with his friends were they just said Go get him do this, get that get that and I just remember feeling really, really sick about it and dreading the fact we’re battle in a war and and I just thought I want to try and do a different way. And and that’s kind of like what my book is all about. I’ve stalled a little bit on the editing but it’s it’s coming through. It’s all happening and it’s all on target. But yeah, the books all about kindness and divorce.

Tamsin Caine 26:10
I love it. I think… so I have parents who are those people that you just described who are now 35 years on and they can’t be in the same room together and as a result they mess stuff. Yeah, they can. Granny makes life difficult for us me and my sister as the children of of that divorce because they came to my they both came to my wedding with their respective partners, but there was the stress of me of trying to manage the management Yeah, and not knowing what what hell was gonna break loose if they were they’re both very peaceful people so it was gonna be a war of words rather than war of fists but but that there’s that additional pressure and stress on the chill even as adults on the children of divorce and you miss stuff. You know what why would you want to have to miss your kids books they I talk about this all the time, but your kids sports days, your dance shows the christenings, weddings the important stuff. If you have a kind divorce if you can get through this amicably you will everybody benefits surely. And like you say it’s it isn’t about being a pushover. It’s about being kind to yourself. And, and, and it’s not being about being a people pleaser. It’s about being kind to yourself by using kinda language to your ex. And being kind to your kids as well, I think is, is in there as well.

Tosh Brittan 27:51
I just want to say one thing, because when women talk about kindness, a lot of people if they’ve had their exes, cheated on them, or they’ve really hurt them in some way. That is really difficult. And the kindness doesn’t make what somebody else did to you okay. Yeah. But actually, it’s, you know, and I talk about sort of the elements of forgiveness and acceptance, that doesn’t make what they do okay to that, okay. But it helps you heal the emotions and not carry them forward, as well. And I always talk about like, forgiveness is the healing and the, the not forgetting is the lesson and nobody’s asking you to forget what happened to you. But actually, it’s how you feel about it, and actually letting go of all the emotion around it as well. And, and learning from it, you know, a learning you’re a really strong person, and that you will get through this. And kindness is that lovely sort of foundational aspect of it to sort of help you, like, feel better about yourself as well, there’s an opportunity. But it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a big ask, but I think for a lot of people actually, it’s about forgiving themselves, because they didn’t see it coming, or they felt stupid was the last person to know. And we sort of turned in on ourselves and that, you know, beat ourselves up for not getting it right for being ashamed for being a failure for not being the good wife, or the good husband, or whatever it is. And actually, that is where the element of kindness comes in. So it’s not about us being kinder to x. It’s that element of self kindness, which is hand in hand. And very much I would say almost, you know, the first, the first lot of kindness that has to be applied is to you because actually, if you can’t be kind to yourself, how can you be kind? To everybody else, I know we always kind of go, Oh, it’s a little bit kinder to be everywhere else in ourselves, but we actually have to change that round and flip it.

Tamsin Caine 29:55
Yeah, absolutely. See, you talked then about About when you’ve been the person that has been hurt or cheated on. But the kindness to yourself can work the other way around, because the guilt can sit on you if you’ve been the person who’s met somebody else or or you feel that you’ve been unkind, or, you know, maybe you maybe you have and that guilt that sits with you can’t come, you can’t carry that forever. And I think that being kind to yourself can work in that way as well. What’s your take on that?

Tosh Brittan 30:35
Yeah, I think I think if you’re gonna sit there beat yourself up for the rest of your life that you were just unkind and everything I said, I kind of feel that’s quite indulgent. Because who does that serve? You know, what bit of that is serving anybody else? If you’re, you know, you did it. You did whatever you did. Okay, so you can’t undo it. So instead of just feeling guilty, and sort of going, Oh, I’m gonna feel so terrible person. And it’s like, enough, go make it good. Go and do something really good. Like, go and make it good with your wife or your husband? Go make it good with your children. Don’t start tearing it out just just, like heal that deal by being a kinder, more understanding less conflictual person. Yeah. You know, we have we always have choice as to how we want things to go. And I think, you know, it’s very, very easy when you feel you’re feeling like a victim that you don’t have any choice, but actually you have you have a choice. Or every time you speak, you think you act and I know, you’ve mentioned this Well, it’s, it’s it’s just this is what we do have. And I encourage actually, I thought I’d share this with you, Ryan kind of like drawing circles, on on the Zoom call here on the camera, is you know, if you’re feeling like you have no control over everything, maybe draw a circle. And inside the circle, this is you, this is what you have control over. And it’s your thoughts, words, actions, what you eat, how much water sleep, you know, it’s how you talk to your children, how you show up for meetings, that’s how, you know whether you take notes in meetings, whether you do your account, it’s all these things that you can personally take responsibility for exercise, whatever, and, and then draw a circle outside. And that’s exactly you can’t things you can’t control. And that might be things like politics, the weather, what your ex does, things says about you. And just you know, I think sometimes in that whole sort of divorce fog that sort of, you know, the that sort of, yeah, sort of state that stress state the fight flight freeze, we just sometimes it’s good just to get it onto paper, and to have it in black and white. So you actually go actually, actually, it’s not looking so bad at the moment, you know, there was stuff that you know, but life is like this, you know, life life kicks up all sorts from you least expect it so

Tamsin Caine 33:14
yeah, it really does. I quite like the description of divorce bog, it brings to mind the first few weeks of having having a child baby brain in like, like mad state of eating, sleeping, changing nappies and thinking, Oh, my what. Feels a bit like that, sort of. There’s so many decisions to make. There’s so much going on. And yet, there’s no blueprint, nothing happening in a way.

Tosh Brittan 33:54
It’s yeah, yeah, don’t really have a guide. We all have these books that we can read. And but actually, you know, we are not all we are not that person going through that experience with all our life stuff that we’ve been through before. And it’s Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s, I think both you and I can both honestly, and authentically say we felt it and we know and we you know, it’s it’s not easy, but just take one day at a time just to just to get up every day. Get your teeth brushed, and that’s where you do and wash your face and put some cream on. You know, get yourself out the door, make children’s lunches, just just do one thing every day. That’s if you like, just, I don’t know, just sitting there for 10 minutes just doing some deep breaths. Being kind to yourself with your words. And just believe that I was so funny I was on I was on a call earlier and we were talking about on the first clients I happen I was doing and sort of interviewing now an airline pilot I didn’t know at the time where I was just sort of talking about how I worked. And I said, I said, just imagine you and your divorce is like you’re taking off from when the UK airport. So you go over all these, all these clouds and everything. And suddenly you get beyond the cloud cover. And there’s this beautiful blue sky. And this is lovely sunshine. And I just said, you know, the sky is always blue beyond the clouds, you said, Do you know what I didn’t know? And he said, I’m fine. And I literally I console off. And he’s like, I’m never gonna take off again, without thinking of that. And my whole So the analogy about like, going through the divorce fog, and then out the cloud cover into this beautiful blue sky.

Tamsin Caine 35:37
Yeah, it’s spot on that absolutely spot on. That’s there. It’s a perfect analogy. I love that it was pilot. I know. I know. So funny. For you to call me. If, if you were gonna work with somebody. So I’m, I’m stopped at home thinking, I have got to the end of my tether I am, I am gonna have to sort this out and open leave this relationship that’s not working. I assume you work with couples, whether they’re married or not civil partnership, or whatever. So so I’m in that space? And I think, right. I remember that interview on that podcast. And that lovely Goddess lady. What, what happens? What happens when someone contacts you? How does? How does it look? How’s it feel?

Tosh Brittan 36:37
Okay, so how does it look, somebody will phone me up and have a little chat. And invariably, a lot of people just start crying because the relief of actually being able to reach out and talk to somebody who understands. And they sort of mentally felt feel held, and I’m sure you have that as well. It’s just like that relief, you know that and because it’s a huge step to reach out. And, you know, we talk about like, Oh, you just make thank or DM you know, it’s massive. And then, so have a little chat about, you know, what they want help with, and some people they’ve got, they’ve got already organised regular co parenting, they just need emotional support and help to get themselves through it, maybe they’ve been quite a controlling relationship, and they don’t have any confidence. And so that’s why I call as far as my work is more of a divorced life coach, because actually, if divorces for the rest of your life, you know, how you go through this can really define how you move forward. And then I will send them, we agreed to work with each other, I send them all about 20 questions. And it’s really for them to look at their life where they want to go, how they want to see their divorce, where would they like to be. And then we just we just start building over the weeks, I do like a three or six month coaching, which is 12 sessions. So they can have 12 sessions, so one every couple of weeks, or they can have one every week, depending on where they are in the process and how much support they need. Or they can have a two hour session and we just know one aspect that they need to they need to just focus on support on and guidance and advice with, but it’s a very much you know. I really, I do kick people they’re not showing up and doing the work. Because, you know, it’s so easy to go oh no, I gotta do this. It’s really scary. And you know, I had a client she came on the call and I haven’t done anything I was like, right where you’re going to watsapp me this, you know, WhatsApp, me that even if it means just going out for a walk with your dog. Or you know, somebody else sorted out that God and the other day and got a locksmith in and showed me the locksmith receipt. So I kind of asked people to do this because actually we all need we need to know that somebody has our back and I you know I help people have their own back ultimately, but you can’t just have expect people to have their own back and not know how to get to that place when they have their own back. So I kind of really help people to get in there. I’m very much you know, finance legal, and this may and there’s no crossover. I know some you know other people that kind of do bits and bobs but for me it’s very much the emotional I stick with what I know and but this whole life coaching thing as well and you know, it’s about actually this is really is an opportunity to do something amazing with your life out of and I talked about the lotus flower growing out of the mud. You know the the Lotus grows out of the worst mud ever. And it’s beautiful. For at the end, and like Phoenix, and ashes are all coming through now. But, you know, out of everything unpleasant and bad, there is always an opportunity to come up shining, and do it with a good heart and kindness and all that lovely stuff.

Tamsin Caine 40:15
So, yeah, yeah, I think I could talk a lot about in the new chapter. It lovely. It’s it’s close in one chapter and it’s opening another one, and you have a massive opportunity to design your new life in the way that you wanted to look. And yeah, and I think working with you and having a bit of backside kicking. And a bit of accountability. And just having somebody make you make those small steps forward is really important, because sometimes, and you know, sometimes it is just just about getting dressed every day.

Tosh Brittan 40:55
And I’ve actually had people say, right, I want you to take a photograph, I want to see you out doing this, then why is he doing that? And actually, it’s really, I just know how it really comes from my own self actually. I could deal with a bit of that. And I’ve been coached, it’s like, come on, you got to do this. Don’t do that. And I’ve been like, oh, I can’t get out of it. No, wriggle room out of your PJs. Yeah. Your PJs and your procrastination and just get on with it. Sounds good. That’s probably quite good podcast title, isn’t it? pyjama out your pyjamas, lint, and procrastination

Tamsin Caine 41:36
That is, there you go! We have just about come to the end of our time together. Before we go, is there anything that you think that I have missed or that you would like to leave our listeners and viewers with?

Tosh Brittan 41:57
Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you, it’s lovely to see you and talk to you anyway. And you’re you’re very lovely interviewer. So I thank you for that as well. And I just think that it’s, you know, everything is out there for everybody. And when you feel like, you know, you wake up, I just remember that moment, my worry is to wake up at four o’clock in the morning. And you know, there be that couple of seconds that split second of HelloWorld. And then it would just come crashing down. And I just would just think oh my god, I’m in a living nightmare. And just to know that there are those of us out there who understand and are there to support you and to help you. And that there is there there does come a day when you wake up, not four, but about seven o’clock in the morning. And you go well, I’m so glad that all went and you know, I’m smiling as I sell it because the relief is palpable. And still is to this day and I’m big sort of supporter of gratitude and gratitude is amazing. But, you know, if you don’t have the practice of gratitude and just saying thank you for three things for you go to bed, three people, three things. It kind of just changes recalibrates your mind from going to bed with worries, to a more positive place. So if you’re finding it difficult to go to sleep, try just practising gratitude. And if you’re struggling, or you’re not struggling, do 100 things 100 100 things you’re grateful for that usually and it’s amazing, actually, it just makes you go oh, actually it just it’s incredible. And you focus on the positives in your life what what it does. So raises your sort of dopamine and happy hormones when you suddenly realise how lucky you are even when you don’t feel like you are.

Tamsin Caine 44:02
Yeah, that’s great advice. What a brilliant, brilliant end to our podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And I will speak to see you soon!

I hope you enjoyed the episode of the Smart Divorce podcast. If you would like to get in touch please have a look in the show notes for details or go into the website Also, if you are listening on Apple podcasts or on Spotify and you wouldn’t mind leaving us a lovely five star review. That would be fantastic. I know that lots of our listeners are finding this is incredibly helpful in the journey through separation divorce and dissolving a civil partnership. Also, if you would like some work further support we do have a Facebook group now. It’s called “Separation divorce and dissolution UK” please do go on to Facebook search of the group and we’d be delighted to have you join us. The one thing I would say do please answer their membership questions. Okay, have a great day and take care!

Transcribed by